Blessings

Nov 2019
50
Hamburg
A very good approach that you would like to achieve, ams. For this I pray for you. Have a good start of the week!
 
Feb 2019
251
Chicago
Can you give me passages from the Qur'an or the Baha'i scriptures describing a situation where God says to Mohammed or Baha'u'llah "You are my beloved son" or "This is my beloved son“?

Can you give me passages from the Qur'an or the Baha'i scriptures where Mohammed or Baha'u'llah say "I am the truth and the way" ?
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. - John 1:12

The Bible itself says in the above verse that anyone receptive to the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit can become the son of God. So that title was not restricted to Jesus alone. You are interpreting the Bible too literally and this has been the cause of many wars and genocides in places like South America.

In the Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna declares the following. If I interpret the words literally, I should be convinced that Lord Krishna is God - the Father of Jesus Christ.

Of this world I am the Father, the Mother, the Ancestor, the Preserver, the Sanctifier, all-inclusive Object of Knowledge, the Cosmic Aum and also the Vedic lore - Bhagavad Gita 9:17

My womb is the Great Prakriti in to which I deposit the seed of my Intelligence; this is the cause of the birth of all beings. Of all forms, produced from whatsoever wombs, Great Prakriti is their original womb (Mother) and I am the seed-imparting Father - Bhagavad Gita 14:3-4

It is solely My impregnating presence that causes Mother Nature to give birth to the animate and the inanimate. Because of Me, the worlds revolve in alternating cycles of creation and dissolution.- Bhagavad Gita 9:10
 
Feb 2019
251
Chicago
No manifestation after Jesus Christ took the risk to present himself as the truth.

No revelation after Jesus Christ contains the statement of God that the manifestation is the beloved Son. This means that from the point of view of Revelation no manifestation since Jesus Christ has been attributed these titles.
You say that because you have not studied prophets from other religions. But since you claim to come from a Christian background, why don't you help us understand why God of the Christian Bible has only one Son and not more than one. What is preventing God from having more sons? Does God have daughters? If not, why not. Why is God always referred to as Father in Christianity. Can God be Mother or Grand Mother or Grand Father or Uncle or Aunt?

The Christian belief is that all human beings came from Adam and Eve. It follows that the children of Adam and Eve had sexual relations among themselves and produced more people. So according to Christian morality it should be ok for a brother and sister to marry and have children. But Leviticus 18:8-10 prohibits sexual relations between a brother and sister. How about you help explain these contradictions before we get in to what Son of God means. If you can't explain morality, I don't think you can grasp esoteric spirituality.
 
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Nov 2019
50
Hamburg
You say that because you have not studied prophets from other religions.
You're rich in knowledge. Especially rich in knowledge about what other people know or have done without knowing them.
Is that a virtue? What about humility?
If you have understood the thread process, not only read it to once again, as so often you have done in this forum, your insight about what you think you know about other people, then you have understood that I asked the question only to question my counterpart.
He said that Jesus was not the only Son of God. On what knowledge is this statement based and where are the alternatives? Of course, the term Son of God has been used many times in the history of the people of Israel. Kings, prophets, all Israel. But after Jesus this term no longer existed. Neither Mohammed nor Bahaullah claimed the "Son of God" and there is no testimony that God recognized anyone as the Son of God. Interesting.
As far as The Truth is concerned, it looks similar. There is no explicit self-statement of other prophets. Relative descriptions a lot. Well, Krishna is an exception here, who says that there is no truth above him, from this it can be concluded that he is the Supreme Truth (mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya)
But I do not find an identification with the truth as it was expressed by Jesus there either.
I am not a big fan of looking at things in a purely literal way. Throughout church history the Holy Spirit was at work. After all, the Bible was not always there as it exists today as a canon, but it was put together. For such a compilation, if one recognizes it as a religious book, it needs the Holy Spirit.
But I very often experience from Baha'i, as here, that one wants to take the scriptures literally when they underpin one's own prophetic claim. That is why I asked in this concrete case whether other prophets literally said that they were truth and way, or identified by God as Son.
Basically, I agree with you that the term was used many times in the Hebrew Bible.
 
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Feb 2019
251
Chicago
You're rich in knowledge. Especially rich in knowledge about what other people know or have done without knowing them.
Is that a virtue? What about humility?
If you have understood the thread process, not only read it to once again, as so often you have done in this forum, your insight about what you think you know about other people, then you have understood that I asked the question only to question my counterpart.
He said that Jesus was not the only Son of God. On what knowledge is this statement based and where are the alternatives?
To answer your question that I have highlighted, I will have to suggest that you study the lives and teachings of Hindu avatars like Adi Shankara, Lord Krishna etc. The English language did not exist during their time and they spoke Sanskrit which is a far richer language than English. They have used Sanskrit terms like Kutastha Chaitanya as the English equivalent of Son of God. In recent times, other Hindu avatars like Sri Yukteshwar and Paramahansa Yogananda who spoke English also attained this exalted status and have offered details in their teachings. But Hindus normally do not make a big deal out of it because for a Hindu, religion is a personal spiritual path that involves inner spiritual struggle to attain union with God and has nothing to do with impressing non-Hindus with the spiritual stature of the Hindu prophets and gain new converts. Christians never seem to miss an opportunity to tell the world that Jesus is the only Son of God, his birth to a virgin, his resurrection or the miracles he performed all of which I think are true except the first. So how does that help you purify your heart or let's say develop humility since you mentioned it.

Of course, the term Son of God has been used many times in the history of the people of Israel. Kings, prophets, all Israel. But after Jesus this term no longer existed.
That's not true. Check out the teachings of Paramahansa Yogananda. This is exactly why I said you have not studied prophets from other religions. And you seem to find it offensive. It is quite obvious to me you have not studied the teachings of Sri Yukteshwar and Paramahansa Yogananda. If you have, you would not make the kind of statements you have made. So I stand by my comments.

Neither Mohammed nor Bahaullah claimed the "Son of God" and there is no testimony that God recognized anyone as the Son of God.
Since when has God decided that He will inform you of every decision He made. Can you not imagine a world where God can act without your knowledge. Have you studied the life of every prophet that came after Jesus? If not, how do you know there is no testimony that God recognized anyone as the Son of God after Jesus. This is a huge problem with mainstream Christianity. You are not alone with this attitude. I would like to think that a humble person will be aware that he does not know everything and that there could be spiritual truths beyond the range of his experience and understanding.

Interesting.
As far as The Truth is concerned, it looks similar. There is no explicit self-statement of other prophets. Relative descriptions a lot. Well, Krishna is an exception here, who says that there is no truth above him, from this it can be concluded that he is the Supreme Truth (mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya)
For the sake of countering a literal interpretation of Jesus's words, I can use a literal interpretation of Krishna's words that I have quoted and suggest that Krishna is God the Father and Jesus was the Son of God. Fortunately, the average Hindu knows better and Hindus never claimed exclusivity or supremacy over non-Hindu religions.
.
 
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ams

Nov 2019
88
Thailand
Imho:

It's all about terminology only. Its only different expression of different language of different cultures of different times.

For me... all those titles like "Son of God" or "Manifestation of God" etc ... are just different expressions of:

"His Heart, His Mind, and His whole consciousness... was deeply attached to God. Up to: One with God".

And that just is it.

How long the world want play this game anymore?
"Which God is higher? Which Guru is the Best? Which Prophet are a highest? Which Church is the only true one?"

No real Prophet, or Son of God, ever wanted this Game about his title.

All this is - and ever was - just pure Ego Game.

It is: "My Son of God is higher then yours"

It is Kindergarten.

And... please not forget: Those Ego-Kindergarten Games was leading to some bloody wars in the history of mankind.

How many centuries muslims and christians was senseless word-fighting about: "Son of God"?

...

Jesus was the Son of God.
Bahá'u'lláh was the Son of God.
Krishna was the Son of God.

Are there really still people who have such a deep problem with this?

The sun shines. Yesterday there. Today here. Tomorow there. You must learn this. <--- ʿAbdul-Baha' (freely cited)

...

Even more: I think that all people in reality are Sons and Daughters of God deep in their core of existence.

Manifestations of God.

Beloved ones of God.

Unconditional Beloved Manifestations of God.

Every single human being.

Jesus Christ and also Bahá'u'lláh were not our "High-End-Super-Gurus".

They were - at the very first - our older Brothers in God.

They reached God in their Heart and Mind and consciousness.

They are our Brothers.

They just wanted to teach us "how to".

They were the same Manifestations of God as we all are.

But more Experienced as we currently are.
 
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Feb 2019
251
Chicago
Imho:

It's all about terminology only. Its only different expression of different language of different cultures of different times.

For me... all those titles like "Son of God" or "Manifestation of God" etc ... are just different expressions of:

"His Heart, His Mind, and His whole consciousness... was deeply attached to God. Up to: One with God".

And that just is it.

How long the world want play this game anymore?
"Which God is higher? Which Guru is the Best? Which Prophet are a highest? Which Church is the only true one?"

No real Prophet, or Son of God, ever wanted this Game about his title.

All this is - and ever was - just pure Ego Game.

It is: "My Son of God is higher then yours"

It is Kindergarten.

And... please not forget: Those Ego-Kindergarten Games was leading to some bloody wars in the history of mankind.

How many centuries muslims and christians was senseless word-fighting about: "Son of God"?

...

Jesus was the Son of God.
Bahá'u'lláh was the Son of God.
Krishna was the Son of God.

Are there really still people who have such a deep problem with this?

The sun shines. Yesterday there. Today here. Tomorow there. You must learn this. <--- ʿAbdul-Baha' (freely cited)

...

Even more: I think that all people in reality are Sons and Daughters of God deep in their core of existence.

Manifestations of God.

Beloved ones of God.

Unconditional Beloved Manifestations of God.

Every single human being.

Jesus Christ and also Bahá'u'lláh were not our "High-End-Super-Gurus".

They were - at the very first - our older Brothers in God.

They reached God in their Heart and Mind and consciousness.

They are our Brothers.

They just wanted to teach us "how to".

They were the same Manifestations of God as we all are.

But more Experienced as we currently are.

Very wise words. I wanted to quote from the Hidden Words of Bahaullah and as you can see he sounds like God just like Krishna does in the Gita. Now if Hindus and Bahai literally interpret these words, each group will conclude their prophet is God and there is going be a disagreement between them at the least or a bloody religious war in the worst case. So yeah, if Jesus is son of God, we have Krishna as God and Bahaullah as God. We just need to find the wife of God and daughter of God to make the family complete.

O Son of Man! Veiled in My immemorial being and in the ancient eternity of My essence, I knew My love for thee; therefore I created thee, have engraved on thee Mine image and revealed to thee My beauty.


When prophets attain oneness or union with God, they sound like God. Adi Shankara said in a state of spiritual union "Aham Brahmasmi" - I am the Brahman (God). Jesus said "I am in the Father and the Father is in me". The sooner the world understand these truths, the greater the chances for brotherhood among men and unity of religions.
 
Nov 2019
50
Hamburg
To answer your question that I have highlighted, I will have to suggest that you study the lives and teachings of Hindu avatars like Adi Shankara, Lord Krishna etc. The English language did not exist during their time and they spoke Sanskrit which is a far richer language than English. They have used Sanskrit terms like Kutastha Chaitanya as the English equivalent of Son of God.
As far I know, Kutastha Chaitanya means that "there is no longer any separation between the individual and universal consciousness" (yogapedia) and that can be achieved by everyone. Jesus was accepted by God, although he was still completely an individual. In another article you describe "Aham brahmasmi", which means "I am Brahman" or "I am a spiritual soul", a state in which a person realizes that he is the soul, not the body. Christianity, on the other hand, assumes that man is soul and body. Jesus as well as Mary were received as whole people, not only their soul. Man is accepted as a whole. In his sinful nature, as much as he may be dominated by the manifestations of nature.

In recent times, other Hindu avatars like Sri Yukteshwar aMan is accepted as a whole. In his sinful nature, as much as he may be dominated by the manifestations of nature. nd Paramahansa Yogananda who spoke English also attained this exalted status and have offered details in their teachings.
That's very interesting. However, it is not special to be fully accepted as a human being, that is Christian conviction. In this sense we are "sons and daughters of the Supreme", children of God, but beyond that there are people who are so close to God that they are experienced as Godlike. But this cannot be achieved through meditation techniques, but is a special election from God.

But Hindus normally do not make a big deal out of it because for a Hindu, religion is a personal spiritual path that involves inner spiritual struggle to attain union with God
You write it, a personal struggle to become one with God. Christians do not want to become one with God, that would be spiritual suicide. It would also be an inappropriate elevation of man.

Christians never seem to miss an opportunity to tell the world that Jesus is the only Son of God, his birth to a virgin, his resurrection or the miracles he performed all of which I think are true except the first. So how does that help you purify your heart or let's say develop humility since you mentioned it.
When I look at how many discussions you refer to Hindu truths and that people have to deal with the Hindu Avatars and how many times I have told people here that Jesus is the way and the truth, then you are clearly in front ;)
The Christian way of thinking is not selfish and does not care first about what it brings to the Christian. But what is the point of your humility to constantly explain to the people in the forum that they have no idea? You obviously can't even bear to talk about your avatars and the need to deal with them in a introducing thread of a Christian person.

Basically I can tell you: Humility develops where you do not push yourself and your spiritual development into the foreground in the daily contact with people. God meets a Christian in the opposite, accordingly his social action faces all people, is exoteric in the broader sense and does not strive to exalt himself through esoteric teachings.

What you may have experienced is the Christian joy of sharing the experience with Jesus, because Christians often experience how truly honest and pious people in spiritual systems struggle to become one with God, slipping into a work righteousness that believes it has to earn the Kingdom of Heaven. When you meet people who believe that they need 2 hours meditation daily to be close to God, then I can tell these people as a Christian that this is a mistake and that God has already accepted him and that he can be close to God here and now - without any meditation, food rules, regulations, rules etc.

That's not true. Check out the teachings of Paramahansa Yogananda.
Can you give a reference in one of his books or lectures that can be heard or read over the Internet?

Since when has God decided that He will inform you of every decision He made. Can you not imagine a world where God can act without your knowledge. Have you studied the life of every prophet that came after Jesus? If not, how do you know there is no testimony that God recognized anyone as the Son of God after Jesus. This is a huge problem with mainstream Christianity. You are not alone with this attitude. I would like to think that a humble person will be aware that he does not know everything and that there could be spiritual truths beyond the range of his experience and understanding.
Because God has decided to show mankind in Jesus Christ what he is like and what decisions he has made. I think it is a sign of humility for a person to accept this divine revelation and not look for alternatives that fit him better.
Of course, there are so many ways in the world, more than I and you know or can ever know, and in many of these ways there is a little bit of truth or moving towards the truth. But if you then ask what this truth is, then my question would be who in history has explicitly claimed to be the Truth and the Way.
If you find him and his statement is believable to you, you should follow him. If this is a Hindu Avatar for you, wonderful, but for me it makes little sense to follow someone who doesn't claim to be the truth. If someone is really the truth, he does not have to remain silent or shy away from this statement. Because then he would have nothing to fear from God.
 
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Nov 2019
50
Hamburg
It's all about terminology only. Its only different expression of different language of different cultures of different times.
I take a completely different view, for example. For me this is not a play on words. For me, the statement that someone is the truth has a qualitative character and claim. Word games start when you want to leave a gap. To be able to talk your way out in the end that you wouldn't claim to be the truth after all. If someone comes in a profoundly believing environment and says "I am The Truth" and reckons with the soon to come court, that is already a statement and a claim. You have to position yourself somehow. Sure, you can say "That's pretty presumptuous and just one of many". You can say "That's not true, there's not just one way". But what if this statement is true? Then my life faces the decisive question.