Blessings

Sep 2010
4,602
Normanton, Far North West Queensland
I take a completely different view, for example. For me this is not a play on words. For me, the statement that someone is the truth has a qualitative character and claim. Word games start when you want to leave a gap. To be able to talk your way out in the end that you wouldn't claim to be the truth after all. If someone comes in a profoundly believing environment and says "I am The Truth" and reckons with the soon to come court, that is already a statement and a claim. You have to position yourself somehow. Sure, you can say "That's pretty presumptuous and just one of many". You can say "That's not true, there's not just one way". But what if this statement is true? Then my life faces the decisive question.
With Jesus the Christ the Statement was indeed true.

The question we must then ask ourselves, what about others that have also made the same statement and also produced fruit as Christ did?

It becomes a journey of self awareness.

Regards Tony
 
Nov 2019
50
Hamburg
The question we must then ask ourselves, what about others that have also made the same statement and also produced fruit as Christ did?
Indeed. Which is why I asked which other prophets after Jesus explicitly claimed to be the truth. Is there such a claim from Baha'u'llah or Mohammed?

To speak truth alone is not sufficient, because the deeds of all biblical prophets, they spoke the word of God given to them by God. Therefore they spoke the truth.

With Jesus Christ, however, there was not only one who claimed to speak the truth, the Word of God, but to be the Word of God Himself.

Therefore, Christ as the Word and the Truth is not identical with the prophets who speak the Word and the Truth.

Therefore there may be coming prophets who speak the word and the truth again, but they speak only what Christ is.
 

ams

Nov 2019
88
Thailand
If someone comes in a profoundly believing environment and says "I am The Truth" and reckons with the soon to come court, that is already a statement and a claim. You have to position yourself somehow. Sure, you can say "That's pretty presumptuous and just one of many". You can say "That's not true, there's not just one way". But what if this statement is true? Then my life faces the decisive question.
"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, you will know my Father also." (Joh 14,6f)

In the end, this means that one must rise his consciousness to the stage of the spirit of Christ.

Rising the consciousness to the spirit of Christ... means that you clearly realize... that all life springs from the same source.

This is what all Prophets, all Sons of God, all Manifestations of God.... was meant to teach in the core.

You can see in each people that he or she - in his her deepest core of existence - is a Manifestation of God.

An unconditional beloved Son or Daughter of God.

As many as possible people are able to realize it... as faster Unity will manifest on Earth.

Unity was - i would say - the main core teaching of Gods Manifestation Bahá'u'lláh and also of Master ʿAbdul-Baha'.

But as said... also of all others Prophets in history sent by God.

The teachings just differs in expression.
 
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Nov 2019
50
Hamburg
In the end, this means that one must rise his consciousness to the stage of the spirit of Christ.
No, there are no teachings that one should raise or develop one's consciousness. The passage says that people who focus their faces on Jesus can recognize God precisely because God has revealed Himself fully in Jesus Christ. There is no need for a new prophet because the revelation in Jesus Christ has reached its climax and is complete.
 

ams

Nov 2019
88
Thailand
i think we reached the point again... where i'm out of words... only able to say: Then... it be so in your mind.
 
Nov 2019
50
Hamburg
i think we reached the point again... where i'm out of words... only able to say: Then... it be so in your mind.
It's no big deal. For me, the common ground in faith lies in the human effort to turn to God. Not in a common concept of God. For me, every person who sincerely strives for truth is someone who is focused on Christ, no matter what his personal vision may be. There are also enough purely formal Christians who turn less to God than some members of other religions. In the end, we do not know how narrow or wide the boundaries of the church are, only God decides.
 
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Sep 2010
4,602
Normanton, Far North West Queensland
Indeed. Which is why I asked which other prophets after Jesus explicitly claimed to be the truth. Is there such a claim from Baha'u'llah or Mohammed?

To speak truth alone is not sufficient, because the deeds of all biblical prophets, they spoke the word of God given to them by God. Therefore they spoke the truth.

With Jesus Christ, however, there was not only one who claimed to speak the truth, the Word of God, but to be the Word of God Himself.

Therefore, Christ as the Word and the Truth is not identical with the prophets who speak the Word and the Truth.

Therefore there may be coming prophets who speak the word and the truth again, but they speak only what Christ is.
Christ is indeed the Word of God in the flesh of Jesus. Remember Jesus asked the Disciples as to who they saw Jesus was and it was Peter's answer that Jesus confirmed the Church would be built upon. Peter confirmed Jesus was the 'Christ'. Christ means 'Annointed One' anointed of the Holy Spirit, thus to us, Christ is the Holy Spirit, the name we come to God through and all that we can know of God, All that is God to us.

It is the Spirit that returns, Christ returns again as God's chosen Messenger.

Thus Baha'u'llah has indeed in many tablets made the claim. He is Christ returned as the 'Glory of God', the Father.

There is a lot to discuss and this topic has many tangents.

The important thing to consider is that one's faith is strengthened in Jesus, when we consider it is Christ that is all the Messengers and by their fruit, prophecies and longevity that we will know who Christ was, is and will be. The First and the Last.

Regards Tony
 
Aug 2019
86
Berlin
Indeed. Which is why I asked which other prophets after Jesus explicitly claimed to be the truth. Is there such a claim from Baha'u'llah or Mohammed?

To speak truth alone is not sufficient, because the deeds of all biblical prophets, they spoke the word of God given to them by God. Therefore they spoke the truth.

With Jesus Christ, however, there was not only one who claimed to speak the truth, the Word of God, but to be the Word of God Himself.

Therefore, Christ as the Word and the Truth is not identical with the prophets who speak the Word and the Truth.

Therefore there may be coming prophets who speak the word and the truth again, but they speak only what Christ is.
Hello, Jehoschua,

I can understand what you're writing because they're logical. Baha'u'llah renounces exclusive self-descriptions, because he sees himself in the line of the revelators and not as the last. If Baha'u'llah would say "I am the truth", he would place himself above the other revelators who are qualitatively equal in Baha'i believe.

But let us come to the truth, as you say, Jesus is the truth. I don't want to pick out individual passages of the Bible, but I want to point to John 12:44: "He who believes in me does not believe in me, but in the one who sent me". Jesus points out that the focus is not on him as a human being, but on the Father who showed himself through him.

Venu asked what is meant by "Son of God". As you yourself indicated, people with a special closeness to God are sons of God. In general, the Bible also describes all believers as sons and daughters of God, children of God. But there are people who are particularly noticeable among people and who have realized the divine qualities to such an extent that God shows Himself in them. That is why God said to Jesus, "You are my beloved Son, I have found pleasure in you". Baha'u'llah explains: "Of all men, the most accomplished, the most excellent, and the most outstanding are the manifestations of the Sun of Truth.

Therefore it is true that Jesus said "I am the truth". Baha'u'llah, however, goes beyond the understanding of the prophets of Judaism as messengers of the Word and writes that the prophets were always the Word of God. Basically, the prophets are both the Word of God and the bearer of the Word, which was also described in the Qur'an in reference to Jesus as "Christ Jesus, Son of Mary, is the Messenger of God and His Word" (4:171).

Baha'u'llah wrote: "Through the teachings of this sun of truth every man will progress and develop" Baha'u'llah thus transcends the concept of the Word of God in that the prophets were the Word of God and the bearer of the Word in one person.

Baha'u'llah describes the prophets as the "sun of truth" and includes himself.
 

ams

Nov 2019
88
Thailand
Jesus asked the Disciples as to who they saw Jesus was and it was Peter's answer that Jesus confirmed the Church would be built upon. Peter confirmed Jesus was the 'Christ'.
Hi Tony... i would like point to one important note on this:

It was Peter's ability to recognize the spirit of Christ in Jesus... on which the movement of Jesus... should be built on.

The ability to recognize the spirit of Christ... was the Rock... the Foundation. Not just the outer person Peter.

The ability to recognize the spirit of Christ... was (and still is) the key to the Kingdom.

Whoever recognize the spirit of Christ ... he or she ... is a holder of "the key to the Kingdom".

All those words has to be understood spiritually.

Jesus was not talking about building up "the only one" .... superlative mega-institution .

He was talking about to be able to recognize the spirit of Christ.

To recognize the spirit of Christ... wherever and whenever the spirit of Christ whistle.

For example:

It is clear that the spirit of Christ was in Bahá'u'lláh.

It is not so difficult to recognize it.

Not recognizing "via the flesh and blood".

But via "the Father in heaven".

Peter answered: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.
It is this inner contact to God... trought which one can recognize the spirit of Christ.

If one ask: "show me Christ.. show me Son of God... in the scripture by the literally words "... this one is searching Christ via "flesh and blood".
He will not recognize Christ in that way.

Man must be a lover of the light no matter from what day-spring it may appear.
He must be a lover of the rose no matter in what soil it may be growing.
He must be a seeker of the truth no matter from what source it come.
Attachment to the lantern is not loving the light.
All Prophets were the lanterns.
All Sons of God were the lanterns of God.
Through all Manifestations of God... was shining the light.


For example... the spirit of Christ was also in Paramahansa Yogananda.

Of course, Yogananda was not meant to build a new religion.

Nevertheless, Christ was also full developed in He, expressed through He.

People often fall in the trap... building up a strong personality-cult around one lantern...
while losing the ability to recognize the light shining through other lanterns.
 
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Feb 2019
251
Chicago
As far I know, Kutastha Chaitanya means that "there is no longer any separation between the individual and universal consciousness" (yogapedia) and that can be achieved by everyone.
That is becoming a Son of God. I can explain in a little more detail later if you are interested. Son of God and Christ are spiritual titles and are related to the spiritual growth and spiritual stature attained by Jesus who was born as Son of Man but became Christ the Son of God. Jesus himself very humbly referred to himself as Son of Man as documented in many places in the Bible (Matthew 8:20 for example). Jesus was not born as "Christ" which is a title reflecting the pinnacle of spiritual stature. Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man - Luke 2:52. Now if Jesus was born as a Christ, there would be no scope for any further growth in wisdom or stature because "Christ" is as far as one can get.

You write it, a personal struggle to become one with God. Christians do not want to become one with God, that would be spiritual suicide. It would also be an inappropriate elevation of man.
I and the Father are one - John 10:30

I am in the Father and the Father is in me - John 14:11


Quite clearly Jesus does not agree with you.

Christianity, on the other hand, assumes that man is soul and body.
The Bible teaches that man is made in God's image. If God is not a body, how can man be a body. Man is not a body but man lives in a body that he makes from the dust which is an allegorical reference to earth that is made up of the five elements of soil, fire, water, ether and air. When your mother conceived you, you did not enter her womb in a physical body but as a spiritual being - a soul made in the image of God and that is your true identity. You then absorbed nutrients from the food she consumed and made a physical body for yourself. Once it was complete, it came out of the womb and you consumed more food to grow the body. The food comes from the earth and so your body came from the earth made up of the five elements which is why you have five fingers on each hand with each finger representing one of the five elements. God is constantly reminding you through your five fingers that you are not the body that is made up of earth elements but a soul made in the immortal image of God. You have accumulated your physical body over a period of time. What you have accumulated can belong to you but it cannot be you. Your body is a piece of the planet and it remains on the planet when you leave the body at "death". If you are the body, then the body should go to heaven or wherever you believe you will go after death. But that does not happen and your body becomes dust and dirt of this planet, reducing itself to the five elements from which it came. The Christian belief that man is a soul and body is contrary to Biblical teaching that man is made in the image of God.

When I look at how many discussions you refer to Hindu truths and that people have to deal with the Hindu Avatars and how many times I have told people here that Jesus is the way and the truth, then you are clearly in front
Those references were in the context of discussions. I hardly ever mentioned about the miracle performed by Hindu avatars or their acts of physical resurrection. But in this discussion I will refer you to read up on one.

When you meet people who believe that they need 2 hours meditation daily to be close to God, then I can tell these people as a Christian that this is a mistake and that God has already accepted him and that he can be close to God here and now - without any meditation, food rules, regulations, rules etc.
Be still, and know that I am God - Psalm 46:10

The stillness being referred to is not physical stillness but mental stillness because only through mental stillness or calming the waves of mind which is one of the definitions of meditation, one can perceive the indwelling Lord as indicated in "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? - Corinthians "3:16


Can you give a reference in one of his books or lectures that can be heard or read over the Internet?
Most of his books are not available on the internet but there is one well known book that is on the internet and I will provide the reference below. You probably heard about Therese Neumann, the great Catholic mystic of Konnersreuth who lived without eating food and who during weekly trances witnessed the whole Passion of Christ and would suffer bleeding wounds just like Jesus did during crucifixion. Paramahansa Yogananda met her in Europe and she recognized his spiritual stature. He said that "her strange life is intended by God to reassure all Christians of the historical authenticity of Jesus’ life and crucifixion as recorded in the New Testament, and to dramatically display the ever-living bond between the Galilean Master and his devotees".


You can read about the physical resurrection of Sri Yukteshwar at:


Here is one book I would recommend you can check out if interested.
 
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