Comforter and Prince of Truth

Feb 2019
197
Chicago
#1
I wanted to request anyone that has information on the Bahai perspective of the Biblical terms "Comforter" and "Prince of Truth" to share it here. Shoghi Effendi said that these terms refer to Bahaullah. I looked up some relevant Biblical verses and to me the Bible appears to refer to the Holy Ghost as the Comforter and Prince of Truth certainly does not seem to refer to Bahaullah because the Bible says in John 12:31 that "now the prince of this world will be driven out". If "prince of this world" refers to Bahaullah as Shoghi Effendi says, it does not make any sense that Bahaullah would be driven out just before Jesus was crucified. But first let me quote Shoghi Effendi

He alone is meant by the prophecy attributed to Gautama Buddha Himself, that “a Buddha named Maitreye, the Buddha of universal fellowship” should, in the fullness of time, arise and reveal “His boundless glory.” To Him the Bhagavad-Gita of the Hindus had referred as the “Most Great Spirit,” the “Tenth Avatar,” the “Immaculate Manifestation of Krishna.”

To Him Jesus Christ had referred as the “Prince of this world,” as the “Comforter” Who will “reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment,” as the “Spirit of Truth” Who “will guide you into all truth,” Who “shall not speak of Himself, but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak,” as the “Lord of the Vineyard,” and as the “Son of Man” Who “shall come in the glory of His Father” “in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory,” with “all the holy angels” about Him, and “all nations” gathered before His throne. - Shoghi Effendi

Bahá'í Reference Library - God Passes By, Pages 89-103

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. - John 14:26

Bible Gateway passage: John 14:26 - King James Version

“Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. Father, glorify your name!”

Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.

Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. - John 12:27-31

Bible Gateway passage: John 12:27-31 - New International Version
 
Jul 2017
442
Olympia, WA, USA
#2
I wanted to request anyone that has information on the Bahai perspective of the Biblical terms "Comforter" and "Prince of Truth" to share it here. Shoghi Effendi said that these terms refer to Bahaullah. I looked up some relevant Biblical verses and to me the Bible appears to refer to the Holy Ghost as the Comforter and Prince of Truth certainly does not seem to refer to Bahaullah because the Bible says in John 12:31 that "now the prince of this world will be driven out". If "prince of this world" refers to Bahaullah as Shoghi Effendi says, it does not make any sense that Bahaullah would be driven out just before Jesus was crucified. But first let me quote Shoghi Effendi

He alone is meant by the prophecy attributed to Gautama Buddha Himself, that “a Buddha named Maitreye, the Buddha of universal fellowship” should, in the fullness of time, arise and reveal “His boundless glory.” To Him the Bhagavad-Gita of the Hindus had referred as the “Most Great Spirit,” the “Tenth Avatar,” the “Immaculate Manifestation of Krishna.”

To Him Jesus Christ had referred as the “Prince of this world,” as the “Comforter” Who will “reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment,” as the “Spirit of Truth” Who “will guide you into all truth,” Who “shall not speak of Himself, but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak,” as the “Lord of the Vineyard,” and as the “Son of Man” Who “shall come in the glory of His Father” “in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory,” with “all the holy angels” about Him, and “all nations” gathered before His throne. - Shoghi Effendi

Bahá'í Reference Library - God Passes By, Pages 89-103

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. - John 14:26

Bible Gateway passage: John 14:26 - King James Version

“Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. Father, glorify your name!”

Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.

Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. - John 12:27-31

Bible Gateway passage: John 12:27-31 - New International Version
The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God which is the Comforter/Spirit of truth because it comforts people and brings them the truth. God sent the Holy Spirit (Bounty of God) to Baha’u’llah and then Baha’u’llah brought the Holy Spirit (Bounty of God) to humanity. That is why Baha’u’llah has been referred to as the Comforter/Spirit if truth.

The Comforter is the same as the Spirit of truth. In John 14, 15 and 16, it refers to the man who would be the return of the Christ Spirit and who would BRING the Holy Spirit to humanity.

Jesus was the first Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit to humanity and Baha’u’llah was another Comforter.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Baha’u’llah testified of Jesus, and bore witness to Jesus, and glorified Jesus in this passage where he referred to Jesus as the Son of man: Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 85-86

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:​
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes forth from with the Father, *he* shall bear witness concerning me;​
John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.​

Jesus describes what that Comforter/Spirit of Truth will do:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.​
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.​
Baha’u’llah clearly refers to Himself as the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth in these passages:

“Give ear unto that which the Dove of Eternity warbleth upon the twigs of the Divine Lote-Tree: O peoples of the earth! We sent forth him who was named John to baptize you with water, that your bodies might be cleansed for the appearance of the Messiah. He, in turn, purified you with the fire of love and the water of the spirit in anticipation of these Days whereon the All-Merciful hath purposed to cleanse you with the water of life at the hands of His loving providence. This is the Father foretold by Isaiah, and the Comforter concerning Whom the Spirit had covenanted with you.Open your eyes, O concourse of bishops, that ye may behold your Lord seated upon the Throne of might and glory.

Say: O peoples of all faiths! Walk not in the ways of them that followed the Pharisees and thus veiled themselves from the Spirit. They truly have strayed and are in error. The Ancient Beauty is come in His Most Great Name, and He wisheth to admit all mankind into His most holy Kingdom. The pure in heart behold the Kingdom of God manifest before His 64 Face. Make haste thereunto and follow not the infidel and the ungodly. Should your eye be opposed thereto, pluck it out. 2 Thus hath it been decreed by the Pen of the Ancient of Days, as bidden by Him Who is the Lord of the entire creation. He, verily, hath come again that ye might be redeemed, O peoples of the earth. Will ye slay Him Whodesireth to grant you eternal life? Fear God, O ye who are endued with insight.
The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, pp. 63-64

“O kings of Christendom! Heard ye not the saying of Jesus, the Spirit of God, "I go away, and come again unto you"? 2 Wherefore, then, did ye fail, when He did come again unto you in the clouds of heaven, to draw nigh unto Him, that ye might behold His face, and be of them that attained His Presence? In another passage He saith: "When He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth." 3 And yet behold how, when He did bring the truth, ye refused to turn your faces towards Him, and persisted in disporting yourselves with your pastimes and fancies. Ye welcomed Him not, neither did ye seek His Presence, that ye might hear the verses of God from His own mouth, and partake of the manifold wisdom of the Almighty, the All-Glorious, the All-Wise. Ye have, by reason of your failure, hindered the breath of God from being wafted over you, and have withheld from your souls the sweetness of its fragrance. Ye continue roving with delight in the valley of your corrupt desires. By God! Ye, and all ye possess, shall pass away. Ye shall, most certainly, return to God, and shall be called to account for your doings in the presence of Him Who shall gather together the entire creation.

Again, heard ye not that which hath been recorded in the Gospel concerning those "which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" 4 —that is, those who have been made manifest through the power of God? Wherefore it becometh evident that one may well be manifested in the world of creation who is truly of God, the Almighty, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. How is it then that when word reached you of Our Cause, ye failed to inquire from Our own lips, that ye might distinguish truth from falsehood, discover Our aim and purpose, and learn of the afflictions which We have suffered at the hands of an evil and wayward generation?”
The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, pp. 191-192

John 12:27-31 New International Version (NIV)

27 “Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. 28 Father, glorify your name!”

Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” 29 The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.

30 Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.

My interpretation of those verses is that Jesus was referring to Himself as prince of this world, and that the voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again” refers to Baha’u’llah, who was the “return” of the Christ Spirit, thus the return of the prince of this world, since Abdu’l-Baha says that the Prince of this world refers to Baha’u’llah.

“Thou didst ask as to chapter 14, verse 30 of the Gospel of John, where the Lord Christ saith, ‘Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the Prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.’ The Prince of this world is the Blessed Beauty; and ‘hath nothing in Me’ signifieth: after Me all will draw grace from Me, but He is independent of Me, and will draw no grace from Me. That is, He is rich beyond any grace of Mine.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá
 
Feb 2019
197
Chicago
#3
The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God which is the Comforter/Spirit of truth because it comforts people and brings them the truth. God sent the Holy Spirit (Bounty of God) to Baha’u’llah and then Baha’u’llah brought the Holy Spirit (Bounty of God) to humanity. That is why Baha’u’llah has been referred to as the Comforter/Spirit if truth.
The Biblical verses relating to Comforter and Prince of Truth have deep esoteric meanings which if interpreted literally will not make much sense. I am afraid you are interpreting the Bible too literally which Shoghi Effendi also seems to do to some extent. But for now, let's go with your literal interpretation and see if it satisfies common sense reason and logic.

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever - John 14:16
Jesus addressed these words to the apostles and a few others who never came in contact with Bahaullah and were dead before Bahaullah was born. So the birth of Bahaullah was of no use to them. If in the above verse Jesus was referring to Bahaullah as you and Shoghi Effendi are saying, then it makes no sense because Bahaullah certainly did not abide with the apostles of Jesus for ever. So your literal interpretation that the Comforter refers to the physical person of Bahaullah or Bahaullah is the second person to receive the Holy Spirit (Bounty of God) is not correct but it can refer to something that the apostles and Bahaullah had access to within their consciousness and that's where the esoteric interpretation will make sense.

Jesus was the first Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit to humanity and Baha’u’llah was another Comforter.
You said the Comforter comforts people and brings them the truth and Jesus was the first Comforter. So Abraham, Moses, Krishna and Buddha all of whom came before Jesus were not Comforters according to you. And that means Jews, Hindus and Buddhists did not have access to the truth and comfort that Christians had for the first time in the history. Why would God single out Christians for this favor? So millions of people all over the world were denied this favor since the creation of man but all of a sudden God thought he needs to send out a special favor for a small group of people in Israel/Palestine?

I think the little bit of logical analysis above has demonstrated that both you and Shoghi Effendi have not understood what Jesus actually meant by the Comforter. But I suspect you may disagree because the matter is subjective. However, I will give you some objective evidence to demonstrate that Shoghi Effendi did not know what he was talking about.

Shoghi Effendi said: "To Him the Bhagavad-Gita of the Hindus had referred as the “Most Great Spirit,” the “Tenth Avatar,” the “Immaculate Manifestation of Krishna.”"

This is a false statement because the Bhagavad-Gita has no reference at all to the "Tenth Avatar" which is the Kalki Avatar of Vishnu. I come from a Hindu background and I am familiar enough with the Bhagavad-Gita to confidently assert that there is no mention at all of the Kalki Avatar. Here is a link to online version of the Bhagavad-Gita Srimad Bhagavad-Gita. Anyone can verify that there is no mention of the Tenth Avatar/Kalkai Avatar. And by the way you will never find two versions of this scripture because Hindus maintained it in its original form for over 5000 years. So you can go with another Bhagavad-Gita web site of your choice also if you prefer. This should objectively prove to you that Shoghi Effendi was doing his own thing.

When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous. - Albert Einstein
 
Last edited:
Mar 2013
570
Edwardsville, Illinois, USA
#4
Venu,

You are certainly correct to say that there is no reference to the "Tenth Avatar" in the Bhagavad-Gita. Some Baha'is have asked the House of Justice guidance as to why Shoghi Effendi stated "To Him the Bhagavad-Gita of the Hindus had referred as the "Most Great Spirit," the "Tenth Avatar"... in the book "God Passes By". They responded:

"...we are requested to inform you that the House of Justice does not know the exact context of the references quoted by Shoghi Effendi (in 'God Passes By') from the Bhagavad-Gita, but if you have been unable to locate them in the book of that name it may be because the beloved Guardian was using the name of the book to stand for the entire Hindu Scripture, as it is common to refer to the entire Old Testament as the Torah, to the New Testament as the Gospel, or to the Báb's Revelation as the Bayan."
(From a letter dated July 12, 1976 written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer)

Although it is common in Middle Eastern societies to refer to the whole body of scripture of a particular religion by naming one important book of that religion, I recognize that this is not the practice in India or elsewhere, so it is understandable that you might object to it.
 
Feb 2019
197
Chicago
#5
Venu,

You are certainly correct to say that there is no reference to the "Tenth Avatar" in the Bhagavad-Gita. Some Baha'is have asked the House of Justice guidance as to why Shoghi Effendi stated "To Him the Bhagavad-Gita of the Hindus had referred as the "Most Great Spirit," the "Tenth Avatar"... in the book "God Passes By". They responded:

"...we are requested to inform you that the House of Justice does not know the exact context of the references quoted by Shoghi Effendi (in 'God Passes By') from the Bhagavad-Gita, but if you have been unable to locate them in the book of that name it may be because the beloved Guardian was using the name of the book to stand for the entire Hindu Scripture, as it is common to refer to the entire Old Testament as the Torah, to the New Testament as the Gospel, or to the Báb's Revelation as the Bayan."
(From a letter dated July 12, 1976 written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer)

Although it is common in Middle Eastern societies to refer to the whole body of scripture of a particular religion by naming one important book of that religion, I recognize that this is not the practice in India or elsewhere, so it is understandable that you might object to it.
Dear Jcc,

Thank you for the clarification. As a truth seeker, I greatly appreciate you sharing the truth and the House of Justice acknowledging the truth as well. The revealed scriptures of the Hindus are Vedas, Upanishads and Bhagavad-Gita and none of them contain a reference to Kalki avatar. There are historical records and life stories of avatars like Rama and Krishna contained in Ramayana, Mahabharata and Srimad Bhagavatam (different from Bhagavad-Gita) and you may find a reference to Kalki avatar in such records. I wanted to make a couple of points here. Firstly, Bahaullah to my knowledge did not claim to be Kalki avatar. If my understanding is correct, Shoghi Effendi should not be presenting Bahaullah as the Kalki avatar. Secondly, the description of Kalki avatar as found in Mahabharata and Srimad Bhagavatam does not match that of Bahaullah. For example, the Mahabharata and Srimad Bhagavatam say that the Kalki avatar would be born in a Brahmana family. Brahmanas (Sanskrit) or Brahmins (English) are the people born in the Brahmin caste of the Hindu society and Bahaullah was a Muslim born in a Muslim society. Check these excerpts from Mahabharata and Srimad Bhagavatam on Kalki avatar and tell me why Shoghi Effendi would assume that Bahaullah was the Kalki avatar. Quite clearly, Shoghi Effendi did not read the Mahabharata or Srimad Bhagavatam.

Excerpt from Mahabharata on Kakli Avatar:

"And when those terrible times will be over, the creation will begin anew. And men will again be created and distributed into the four orders beginning with Brahmanas. And about that time, in order that men may increase, Providence, according to its pleasure, will once more become propitious. And then when the Sun, the Moon, and Vrihaspati will, with the constellation Pushya 1, enter the same sign, the Krita age will begin again. And the clouds will commence to shower seasonably, and the stars and stellar conjunctions will become auspicious. And the planets, duly revolving in their orbits, will become exceedingly propitious. And all around, there will be prosperity and abundance and health and peace. And commissioned by Time, a Brahmana of the name of Kalki will take his birth. And he will glorify Vishnu and possess great energy, great intelligence, and great prowess. And he will take his birth in a town of the name of Sambhala in an auspicious Brahmana family. And vehicles and weapons, and warriors and arms, and coats of mail will be at his disposal as soon as he will think of them. And he will be the king of kings, and ever victorious with the strength of virtue. And he will restore order and peace in this world crowded with creatures and contradictory in its course. And that blazing Brahmana of mighty intellect, having appeared, will destroy all things. And he will be the Destroyer of all, and will inaugurate a new Yuga. And surrounded by the Brahmanas, that Brahmana will exterminate all the mlecchas wherever those low and despicable

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03189.htm

When the Age of Kali has almost ended, the Supreme Personality of Godhead will incarnate. He will appear in the village Śambhala, in the home of the exalted brāhmaṇa Viṣṇuyaśā, and will take the name Kalki. He will mount His horse Devadatta and, taking His sword in hand, will roam about the earth killing millions of bandits in the guise of kings. - Srimad Bhagavatam 12:2

SB 12.2: The Symptoms of Kali-yuga

And for reasons I explained in my previous post, we cannot logically conclude that Jesus by Comforter was referring to Bahaullah. The birth of Bahaullah was of no use to apostles of Jesus because all of them died long before Bahaullah was born. So Bahaullah certainly did not have a chance to help and guide the apostles of Jesus as he said the Comforter would. So logically speaking, the Comforter is something that was accessible to Jesus, his apostles as well as Bahaullah within their own consciousness. These esoteric truths are universal and were taught by Hindu avatars as well and are found in Hindu scriptures. It is just that the language they used was Sanskrit and the terminology will sound different. Anyone can have access to the Comforter (Holy Ghost or AUM of the Hindu Scriptures) through spiritual effort. Literally interpreting the words of Bahaullah or Jesus can completely distort their meanings. Even for a word like leprosy which is a physical disease, Bahaullah gave an esoteric meaning. Imagine what Comforter, Prince of Truth, Dove of Eternity might mean. Check this out:

Bahaullah on esoteric meaning of leprosy

We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.

Leprosy may be interpreted as any veil that interveneth between man and the recognition of the Lord, his God. Whoso alloweth himself to be shut out from Him is indeed a leper, who shall not be remembered in the Kingdom of God, the Mighty, the All-Praised. We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him. - Bahaullah

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 85-86

-Venu
 
Last edited:
Sep 2010
4,522
Earth
#6
Dear Jcc,

Thank you for the clarification. As a truth seeker, I greatly appreciate you sharing the truth and the House of Justice acknowledging the truth as well. The revealed scriptures of the Hindus are Vedas, Upanishads and Bhagavad-Gita and none of them contain a reference to Kalki avatar. There are historical records and life stories of avatars like Rama and Krishna contained in Ramayana, Mahabharata and Srimad Bhagavatam (different from Bhagavad-Gita) and you may find a reference to Kalki avatar in such records. I wanted to make a couple of points here. Firstly, Bahaullah to my knowledge did not claim to be Kalki avatar. If my understanding is correct, Shoghi Effendi should not be presenting Bahaullah as the Kalki avatar. Secondly, the description of Kalki avatar as found in Mahabharata and Srimad Bhagavatam does not match that of Bahaullah. For example, the Mahabharata and Srimad Bhagavatam say that the Kalki avatar would be born in a Brahmana family. Brahmanas (Sanskrit) or Brahmins (English) are the people born in the Brahmin caste of the Hindu society and Bahaullah was a Muslim born in a Muslim society. Check these excerpts from Mahabharata and Srimad Bhagavatam on Kalki avatar and tell me why Shoghi Effendi would assume that Bahaullah was the Kalki avatar. Quite clearly, Shoghi Effendi did not read the Mahabharata or Srimad Bhagavatam.

Excerpt from Mahabharata on Kakli Avatar:

"And when those terrible times will be over, the creation will begin anew. And men will again be created and distributed into the four orders beginning with Brahmanas. And about that time, in order that men may increase, Providence, according to its pleasure, will once more become propitious. And then when the Sun, the Moon, and Vrihaspati will, with the constellation Pushya 1, enter the same sign, the Krita age will begin again. And the clouds will commence to shower seasonably, and the stars and stellar conjunctions will become auspicious. And the planets, duly revolving in their orbits, will become exceedingly propitious. And all around, there will be prosperity and abundance and health and peace. And commissioned by Time, a Brahmana of the name of Kalki will take his birth. And he will glorify Vishnu and possess great energy, great intelligence, and great prowess. And he will take his birth in a town of the name of Sambhala in an auspicious Brahmana family. And vehicles and weapons, and warriors and arms, and coats of mail will be at his disposal as soon as he will think of them. And he will be the king of kings, and ever victorious with the strength of virtue. And he will restore order and peace in this world crowded with creatures and contradictory in its course. And that blazing Brahmana of mighty intellect, having appeared, will destroy all things. And he will be the Destroyer of all, and will inaugurate a new Yuga. And surrounded by the Brahmanas, that Brahmana will exterminate all the mlecchas wherever those low and despicable

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03189.htm

When the Age of Kali has almost ended, the Supreme Personality of Godhead will incarnate. He will appear in the village Śambhala, in the home of the exalted brāhmaṇa Viṣṇuyaśā, and will take the name Kalki. He will mount His horse Devadatta and, taking His sword in hand, will roam about the earth killing millions of bandits in the guise of kings. - Srimad Bhagavatam 12:2

SB 12.2: The Symptoms of Kali-yuga

And for reasons I explained in my previous post, we cannot logically conclude that Jesus by Comforter was referring to Bahaullah. The birth of Bahaullah was of no use to apostles of Jesus because all of them died long before Bahaullah was born. So Bahaullah certainly did not have a chance to help and guide the apostles of Jesus as he said the Comforter would. So logically speaking, the Comforter is something that was accessible to Jesus, his apostles as well as Bahaullah within their own consciousness. These esoteric truths are universal and were taught by Hindu avatars as well and are found in Hindu scriptures. It is just that the language they used was Sanskrit and the terminology will sound different. Anyone can have access to the Comforter (Holy Ghost or AUM of the Hindu Scriptures) through spiritual effort. Literally interpreting the words of Bahaullah or Jesus can completely distort their meanings. Even for a word like leprosy which is a physical disease, Bahaullah gave an esoteric meaning. Imagine what Comforter, Prince of Truth, Dove of Eternity might mean. Check this out:

Bahaullah on esoteric meaning of leprosy

We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.

Leprosy may be interpreted as any veil that interveneth between man and the recognition of the Lord, his God. Whoso alloweth himself to be shut out from Him is indeed a leper, who shall not be remembered in the Kingdom of God, the Mighty, the All-Praised. We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him. - Bahaullah

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 85-86

-Venu
I see a lot of metephor in your quotes. Metephor that could point to Baha'u'llah.

There is decades of tradition to sort through to find any truth in this matter.

Shambhala - Wikipedia

"Whatever its historical basis, Shambhala (spelling derived from Buddhist transliterations) gradually came to be seen as a Buddhist pure land, a fabulous kingdom whose reality is visionary or spiritual as much as physical or geographic"

Thus it could be a spiritual kingdom, likened to pure land, which is the abide of a buddha.

Pure land - Wikipedia

Regards Tony
 
Feb 2019
197
Chicago
#7
I see a lot of metephor in your quotes. Metephor that could point to Baha'u'llah.

There is decades of tradition to sort through to find any truth in this matter.

Shambhala - Wikipedia

"Whatever its historical basis, Shambhala (spelling derived from Buddhist transliterations) gradually came to be seen as a Buddhist pure land, a fabulous kingdom whose reality is visionary or spiritual as much as physical or geographic"

Thus it could be a spiritual kingdom, likened to pure land, which is the abide of a buddha.

Pure land - Wikipedia

Regards Tony
Thanks Tony for your input. We can rely on metaphorical meanings for words like Shambhala, Brahmana, Devadatta etc and I am fine with that. But then what would happen is that such meanings become universal and so would apply to not only every manifestation of God but also to every person that qualifies through spiritual effort and that's the right thing to do. For example, using metaphorical meanings for words like Comforter and Shambala it can easily be demonstrated that even Prophet Mohammed or Hindu avatars like Paramahansa Yogananda qualify to be called a Comforter because the word Comforter really refers to the experience of Holy Ghost in a deep state of meditation because such experience bestows a certain amount of God contact which rids the mind of troubles and worries (the experience comforts) while also revealing some spiritual truths. That's a simple explanation but it actually goes much deeper than that. That explains why the Comforter that Jesus promised to the apostles did not show up in a physical form when they needed it the most which was after Jesus' death. You can continue to believe that Bahaullah was the Comforter that Jesus spoke of but if that is true, of what use was Bahaullah to the apostles of Jesus who died before the birth of Bahaullah? How can dead people make use of Bahaullah and his teachings? Something to think about.
 
Last edited:
Sep 2010
4,522
Earth
#8
Thanks Tony for your input. We can rely on metaphorical meanings for words like Shambhala, Brahmana, Devadatta etc and I am fine with that. But then what would happen is that such meanings become universal and so would apply to not only every manifestation of God but also to every person that qualifies through spiritual effort and that's the right thing to do. For example, using metaphorical meanings for words like Comforter and Shambala it can easily be demonstrated that even Prophet Mohammed or Hindu avatars like Paramahansa Yogananda qualify to be called a Comforter because the word Comforter really refers to the experience of Holy Ghost in a deep state of meditation because such experience bestows a certain amount of God contact which rids the mind of troubles and worries (the experience comforts) while also revealing some spiritual truths. That's a simple explanation but it actually goes much deeper than that. That explains why the Comforter that Jesus promised to the apostles did not show up in a physical form when they needed it the most which was after Jesus' death. You can continue to believe that Bahaullah was the Comforter that Jesus spoke of but if that is true, of what use was Bahaullah to the apostles of Jesus who died before the birth of Bahaullah? How can dead people make use of Bahaullah and his teachings? Something to think about.
They are universal and do apply to all of Gods chosen Manifestations, they are all the One same source of light. "All names originate from His Name and the start and end of all affairs are in His Hand." (Baha'u'llah's Tablet to Mánikchí Sáhib "Three Epistles to the Zoroastrians,")

No other person qualifies, they are not born of the Holy Spirit as are all of Gods Messengers.

Regards Tony
 
Feb 2019
197
Chicago
#9
They are universal and do apply to all of Gods chosen Manifestations, they are all the One same source of light. "All names originate from His Name and the start and end of all affairs are in His Hand." (Baha'u'llah's Tablet to Mánikchí Sáhib "Three Epistles to the Zoroastrians,")

No other person qualifies, they are not born of the Holy Spirit as are all of Gods Messengers.

Regards Tony
If other people that are not manifestations of God do not qualify, Jesus would not have promised another Comforter to his apostles upon his departure. This verse throws some light on it.

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you". - John 16:7

Truth is, experiencing the Comforter is one of the stages in becoming a Son of God and Jesus taught that everyone that received the Comforter (through spiritual effort) developed the ability to become a Son of God.

"He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God - John 1:10-12

The "He" refers to the Holy Ghost or the AUM vibration or the WORD through which the whole world (including our physical bodies) was made but people do not know and hence do not recognize the truth. But those who receive the Holy Ghost through individual spiritual effort can and have become a Son of God like Jesus was.

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." - John 14:26

From this verse it is clear that the Comforter is not a physical being but the Holy Ghost which is essentially a spiritual being. Jesus is clearly saying that the apostles should be able to receive the Holy Ghost which will teach them to realize the spritual truths through experience that he taught them orally.
 
Feb 2019
197
Chicago
#10
They are universal and do apply to all of Gods chosen Manifestations, they are all the One same source of light.
I agree. So it is somewhat odd to single out one (or two) manifestation of God for the title of Comforter and present him as the promised one of all religions as Shoghi Effendi is doing in the case of Bahaullah. God has sent his manifestations or avatars to different parts of the world.

The fact that most Muslims do not recognize Bahaullah as a Prophet or manifestation of God does not reduce his spiritual stature in any way. It just shows that most Muslims are bound by the mainstream interpretations of Mohammed's teachings some of which have quite obviously been changed by people. A similar observation is valid for those who are unable to recognize the manifestations of God that were born among Hindus.
 

Similar threads