Faith

Jul 2017
421
Olympia, WA, USA
#41
See how flawed your approach is. You are equating tales and traditions with divine revelations. If tales and traditions are conflicting with each other, it does not mean all of them are false. It just means, they can confuse people.
Some of them might be true, but Baha’u’llah is still telling us to disregard them:

“Please God thou wilt turn thine eyes towards the Most Great Revelation, and entirely disregard these conflicting tales and traditions.”
Bahaullah is referring to certain traditions of bygones ages and past generations. How does that equate to all religions? He could have been referring to Islamic traditions. In any case the Hindu prophets I mentioned came after Bahaullah. So try as you might, you cannot possibly apply Bahaullah's words to them.
I did not say that equated to all religions. Baha’u’llah was not referring to Islamic traditions. The context of the passage shows what he was referring to:

“Mention hath been made in certain books of a deluge which caused all that existed on earth, historical records as well as other things, to be destroyed. Moreover, many cataclysms have occurred which have effaced the traces of many events. Furthermore, among existing historical records differences are to be found, and each of the various peoples of the world hath its own account of the age of the earth and of its history. Some trace their history as far back as eight thousand years, others as far as twelve thousand years. To any one that hath read the book of Jük it is clear and evident how much the accounts given by the various books have differed.”

I sure can apply Baha’u’llah’s words to any anyone who claims to a Revelation direct from God if He came after Baha’u’llah wrote the following:

“Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor. We pray God that He may graciously assist him to retract and repudiate such claim. Should he repent, God will, no doubt, forgive him. If, however, he persisteth in his error, God will, assuredly, send down one who will deal mercilessly with him. Terrible, indeed, is God in punishing! Whosoever interpreteth this verse otherwise than its obvious meaning is deprived of the Spirit of God and of His mercy which encompasseth all created things. Fear God, and follow not your idle fancies. Nay, rather follow the bidding of your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Wise.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 346
Now you sound like a fanatical Muslim. The proper way to come to a conclusion is to investigate through study and analysis and if possible practice before coming to conclusions.
I do not have to investigate ALL the older revelations from God to know the truth about the Revelation of Baha’u’llah.
You are just parroting the ignorance of Shogi Effendi. Shogi Effendi shouldn't be commenting on other religions without studying them. How did he become an expert on all the religions while failing to appoint the next Gaurdian for the Bahai faith as willed by Abdul Baha. Wasn't that part of his job to take care of the needs of the Bahai faith first. Where does Bahaullah teach people like Shogi Effendi to abrogate and trash all the religions of the world? Shogi Effendi is going off a tangent and doing his own thing.
Shoghi Effendi did not appoint another Guardian because there was no suitable candidate before he died and he died suddenly, before he could appoint a Guardian.

Shoghi Effendi is not doing his own thing since nothing he wrote contradicts what Baha’u’llah wrote. To say that the previous revelations have been abrogated is essentially what Baha’u’llah said. That is not trashing the older religions.
The contradictions are mostly because of your flawed interpretation. If you meditate and intuitively perceive the esoteric truths in all religions, they are all equally good.
No, the contradictions are because if the flawed interpretations of the adherents to the older religions. That is why Jews and Christians do not understand that Baha’u’llah has fulfilled the Bible prophecies. That is why

You are correct that the spiritual truths of all the religions are equally true, but humanity does not NEED those older religions anymore because we have a NEW religion, and as long as people cling to their older religions they will never recognize Baha’u’llah. This is logic 101 stuff and it can be verified by talking to the clingers who say that do not need that “new religion.”

Meanwhile, the world situation continues to go downhill……

“The One true God beareth Me witness, and His creatures will testify, that not for a moment did I allow Myself to be hidden from the eyes of men, nor did I consent to shield My person from their injury. Before the face of all men I have arisen, and bidden them fulfil My pleasure. My object is none other than the betterment of the world and the tranquillity of its peoples. The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 286
That only shows more of your ignorance. Jesus did not abrogate Judaism which is still alive and vibrant. Mohammed did not abrograte Christianity and Judaism. Buddha did not abrogate Hinduism. You just sound like a fanatical Muslim. By your own flawed logic, the Bahai faith stands abrograted because there have been manifestations of God in India after the death of Bahaullah.
The Dispensations were abrogated, the religions were not abrogated:

“Let no one, however, mistake my purpose. The Revelation, of which Bahá’u’lláh is the source and center, abrogates none of the religions that have preceded it, nor does it attempt, in the slightest degree, to distort their features or to belittle their value. It disclaims any intention of dwarfing any of the Prophets of the past, or of whittling down the eternal verity of their teachings. It can, in no wise, conflict with the spirit that animates their claims, nor does it seek to undermine the basis of any man’s allegiance to their cause. Its declared, its primary purpose is to enable every adherent of these Faiths to obtain a fuller understanding of the religion with which he stands identified, and to acquire a clearer apprehension of its purpose. It is neither eclectic in the presentation of its truths, nor arrogant in the affirmation of its claims. Its teachings revolve around the fundamental principle that religious truth is not absolute but relative, that Divine Revelation is progressive, not final. Unequivocally and without the least reservation it proclaims all established religions to be divine in origin, identical in their aims, complementary in their functions, continuous in their purpose, indispensable in their value to mankind.” The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh, pp, 57-58

There have been no Manifestations of God in India since the death of Baha’u’llah.
Muslims also claim they have the original teachings of Mohammed and according to his last message there will be no new prophets. So according to Islamic teachings, Bahaullah is not a prophet and Bahai faith is not a true religion. You are subjecting other religions to the same religious fanaticism that Muslims have subjected the Bahai faith to. You are no different from a fundamentalist Muslim.
But Muslims do not have the original writings of Muhammad since Muhammad could not write. Moreover, what they do have has been altered to suit their purposes.
What scientific evidence can you offer that God revealed any spiritual truths to Bahaullah? How can you scientifically prove that Bahaullah was a manifestation of God?
I never said I had scientific evidence. NO religion has any scientific evidence to prove it is true. Nobody can prove that anyone was a Manifestation of God. That has to be taken on faith. But there is evidence that indicates that Baha’u’llah was telling the truth about His claim. Whether it is evidence for everyone is another matter altogether.
None of that proves that his teachings came from God. None of that proves that he was a prophet of God.
I never said it proved that his teachings came from God or that He was a Prophet of God. Nobody can prove that except to themselves.

Evidence is not the same as proof:

Evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid: https://www.google.com/search
Proof: evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement: https://www.google.com/search

Well, the Bahai faith has also been distorted by it's followers. As of today there are atleast 12 different Bahai groups claiming to represent the real teachings of Bahaullah. That does not sound too good for a religion which is hardly 200 years old.

No, there is only ONE Baha’i Faith. The others are Covenant-breaker groups that claim to be Baha’is.
Abdul Baha had to expel his own brother that was appointed by Bahaullah as the second in command of the faith. The second and third wives of Bahaullah and eventually all the male members of his family were also expelled. And Shogi Effendi talks about one race, one nation, one religion and universal brotherhood and you parrot his ignorance. Really? A religion that expelled the family members of its founder and got divided in at least 12 religious groups aims to promote universal brotherhood and one religion. Shouldn't brotherhood and unity of religion begin at home?
So now you are going to get down and dirty by using the history of the Baha’i Faith, since you don’t have anything else. Been there, done that.

You speak from total ignorance because you do not know why the family members were expelled and you do not know why those groups broke away.

Why not just call it a day and forget you ever heard of Baha’u’llah? It is obvious what you are trying to do, you want to make the Baha’i Faith in your own image, but it is what it is, and you cannot change that just because you do not LIKE some things that don’t suit your ideas of what a religion should be.

“Therefore, I say unto you, spread the Divine Truth with all your might that men’s intelligence may become enlightened; this is the best answer to those who slander. I do not wish to speak of those people nor to say anything ill of them—only to tell you that slander is of no importance!
Clouds may veil the sun, but, be they never so dense, his rays will penetrate! Nothing can prevent the radiance of the sun descending to warm and vivify the Divine Garden.
Nothing can prevent the fall of the rain from Heaven.
Nothing can prevent the fulfilment of the Word of God!
Therefore when you see books and papers written against the Revelation, be not distressed, but take comfort in the assurance that the cause will thereby gain strength.
No one casts stones at a tree without fruit. No one tries to extinguish a lamp without light! ………….
And I say unto you that no calumny is able to prevail against the Light of God; it can only result in causing it to be more universally recognized. If a cause were of no significance, who would take the trouble to work against it!
But always the greater the cause the more do enemies arise in larger and larger numbers to attempt its overthrow! The brighter the light the darker the shadow! Our part it is to act in accordance with the teaching of Bahá’u’lláh in humility and firm steadfastness.” Paris Talks, pp. 104-106
 
Jul 2017
421
Olympia, WA, USA
#42
The authenticity of a scripture can be verified by meditating on the spiritual truths therein and personally experiencing those truths.
That works for you, but it does not work for everyone else. And that does not prove that the scriptures are authentic.
The original scriptures of the Hindus are the Vedas and Upanishads and the more recent one is the Gita. By recent, I mean just over 5000 years old. These universal truths were revealed to avatars at various points in time and they were so humble that they did not wish to put their names on them or copyright them to make some money. Time goes on in a cyclic fashion and dark ages are part of cycles of time. At the advent of the last dark age, Sage Vyasa compiled all the Vedas and organized them in 4 books. If you have the time and interest you can investigate the truth. Or you can just parrot Shogi Effendi's ignorance.
I do not need to spend my time reading books that were written by men that are thousands of years old. I have the latest Revelation from God with original writings of a Manifestation of God.
Just more ignorance from your end. Not true at all.
Ask any Hindu who the founder is and they will all say something different. It is laughable to say Hinduism has not changed over a period of 5000 years, it has more sects than Christianity.
The Bahai faith has been corrupted too since you have at least 12 different groups claiming to represent the true teachings of Bahaullah.
Don’t waste your breath. There is ONLY ONE Baha’i Faith, the one that adheres to the Covenant Baha’u’llah. The REASON the Baha’i Faith has not been corrupted is because of the Covenant of Baha'u'llah.
Hinduism does not teach that there are many Gods. Hinduism teaches there is one and only one God but that God can take many forms and play many roles. Just like a man can be husband, father, son, friend and businessman, God can and does play many roles in the creation and Hindus represent each role with a particular form that is dear to them.
YOUR sect of Hinduism does not teach that there are many Gods, but many Hindus do believe that there are many Gods.
It is not a Baha’i belief that God plays roles in creation. That is anthropomorphizing God and bringing him down to a human level.

The following is NOT a Baha’i belief since Baha’u’llah did not teach this:

“Hinduism views mankind as divine. Because Brahma is everything, Hinduism asserts that everyone is divine. Atman, or self, is one with Brahman. All of reality outside of Brahman is considered mere illusion. The spiritual goal of a Hindu is to become one with Brahma, thus ceasing to exist in its illusory form of “individual self.”” What is Hinduism and what do Hindus believe?

In fact, Baha'u'llah taught that the souls of everyone will retain their individuality for all of eternity. We will never be one with God.

God in the Bahá'í Faith
The Bahá'í view of God is essentially monotheistic. God is the imperishable, uncreated being who is the source of all existence.[1] He is described as "a personal God, unknowable, inaccessible, the source of all Revelation, eternal, omniscient, omnipresent and almighty".[2][3] Though transcendent and inaccessible directly, his image is reflected in his creation. The purpose of creation is for the created to have the capacity to know and love its creator.[4] God communicates his will and purpose to humanity through intermediaries, known as Manifestations of God, who are the prophets and messengers that have founded religions from prehistoric times up to the present day.[5]
Personal God
While the Bahá'í writings teach of a personal god who is a being with a personality (including the capacity to reason and to feel love), they clearly state that this does not imply a human or physical form.[2]Shoghi Effendi writes:​
What is meant by personal God is a God Who is conscious of His creation, Who has a Mind, a Will, a Purpose, and not, as many scientists and materialists believe, an unconscious and determined force operating in the universe. Such conception of the Divine Being, as the Supreme and ever present Reality in the world, is not anthropomorphic, for it transcends all human limitations and forms, and does by no means attempt to define the essence of Divinity which is obviously beyond any human comprehension. To say that God is a personal Reality does not mean that He has a physical form, or does in any way resemble a human being. To entertain such belief would be sheer blasphemy.[17][18]
Why is it ok for Bahaullah to represent God in the form of a beautiful Houri but Hindus can't give a form to God. What does Bahaullah uncovering the breast of the Houri in the Tablet of the Maiden mean? I bet you have no clue but you are dismissing Hindu prophets as false prophets. That's the height of ignorance.
I do not think that Baha’u’llah was representing God in the forum of a beautiful Houri in that Tablet. That is just your projection. Any men who came claiming to bring a Revelation from God after Baha’u’llah were lying imposters. Let the wrath of God be upon them, as Baha’u’llah wrote.
Father does not mean God is your biological father. Father means He is the positive force behind your birth with Holy Ghost being the negative force. If you carefully observe creation, you will notice it is full of polar opposites like electron/proton, day/night, man/woman, sun/earth. God created man with positive energy and woman with negative energy just so that they can come together and share. In a human marriage, man represents the Father (God) or positive force while woman represents Holy Ghost (Mother) or the negative force and their union results in the birth of children. Within a human being, the soul represents the Father while the body which is the manifestation of the mind stuff represents the Holy Ghost. That is the secret of creation.
So now the Holy Ghost is a negative force. Don’t let any Christians hear you saying that.
I am not saying that. What I am saying is that without inner spiritual growth, any attempts to promote universal brotherhood is futile and the divisions in Bahai faith and Islam prove that.
There are NO divisions within the Baha’i Faith although there are divisions within Islam. Bahais might have some differing opinions but we agree on the Covenant and the other essentials.
You cannot induce brotherhood from outside. It has to grow from inside because it is a quality of heart. And for that individual spiritual effort is needed. Not lofty and loud preaching that we are all brothers. I think most good people understand that intellectually but the feeling in the heart may be missing.
And how exactly do you think that is going to happen on a massive scale, by everyone clinging to the religions of the past, each with different beliefs that they believe are the Only Way?

How do you change a person’s heart?
Why don't you unite the at least 12 different Bahai groups in to one religious group first and then I will find your boasting credible. Let me see all the Bahai groups embrace each other in the spirit of universal brotherhood that Shogi Effendi dreamed about and then I will believe that the Bahai faith can promote universal brotherhood. Your claims make no sense given how divided the Bahai are.
Give it up for lost. There is Only One Baha’i Faith. Those other groups are Covenant-breakers. Do you even know what that means?

Definition
Covenant-breaking does not refer to attacks from non-Bahá'ís or former Baha'is. Rather, it is in reference to internal campaigns of opposition where the Covenant-breaker is seen as challenging the unity of the Bahá'í Faith, causing internal division, or by claiming or supporting an alternate succession of authority or administrative structure. The central purpose of the covenant is to prevent schism and dissension.[1] In a letter to an individual dated 23 March 1975, the Universal House of Justice wrote:​
When a person declares his acceptance of Bahá'u'lláh as a Manifestation of God he becomes a party to the Covenant and accepts the totality of His Revelation. If he then turns round and attacks Bahá'u'lláh or the Central Institution of the Faith he violates the Covenant. If this happens every effort is made to help that person to see the illogicality and error of his actions, but if he persists he must, in accordance with the instructions of Bahá'u'lláh Himself, be shunned as a Covenant-breaker.​
It is not logical to believe because the facts as available in other religions prove that God has sent other prophets much before 2852 AD. There is nothing wrong in questioning God. Reason is a faculty God gave us. Using it to ask questions is the most sensible thing to do and God wouldn't find it offensive because reasoning by it's very nature raises questions. In fact, not questioning creates religious fanatics.
You can question God all you want to, but once a Baha’i accepts Baha’u’llah as a Manifestation of God, we do not question Him because that is akin to questioning God.

“The essence of belief in Divine unity consisteth in regarding Him Who is the Manifestation of God and Him Who is the invisible, the inaccessible, the unknowable Essence as one and the same. By this is meant that whatever pertaineth to the former, all His acts and doings, whatever He ordaineth or forbiddeth, should be considered, in all their aspects, and under all circumstances, and without any reservation, as identical with the Will of God Himself. This is the loftiest station to which a true believer in the unity of God can ever hope to attain. Blessed is the man that reacheth this station, and is of them that are steadfast in their belief.” Gleanings, p. 167
So why did Bahaullah give the form of a Houri to God in some of his mystical poems. You don't understand Bahaullah teachings. Why don't you meditate and calm your mind instead of preaching dogma. Then your will understand.
So you know more about the Baha’i Faith than I do? I do not understand Baha’u’llah’s teachings? I have been a Baha’i for 48 ½ years. I do not preach dogma. I share the principles that Baha’u’llah taught. You do not even have a clue what those are.

Sorry, but you cannot make Baha’u’llah in your own image. The mystical teachings are a small part of what Baha’u’llah revealed. The primary purpose of the Revelation of Baha’u’llah was the unity of mankind, not the spiritual transformation of the individual. That was the mission of Jesus..
Don’t waste your time saying those are not from Baha’u’llah because Shoghi Effendi wrote them. Every Baha’i knows better because we adhere to the Covenant of Baha’u’llah.

Don’t waste your time saying that the Baha’i Faith is divided into sects so we are not unified. Every Baha’i knows better because we adhere to the Covenant of Baha’u’llah, so we know what a Covenant-breaker is.
 
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Feb 2019
164
Chicago
#43
God brought the cosmos into existence. Three aspects were not necessary.
It is not for you and me to decide what aspects were necessary. The esoteric truths relating to the creation are found in the scriptures of various religions. You don't have to accept them if you do not want to. But the reality does not change if you decide to ignore it.

Historical facts, that is laughable. There are no historical facts surrounding the New Testament. It is all stories that cannot be verified by anyone, and are thus believed on faith alone. If they were historical facts everyone would be a Christian
The gospels were written by the apostles of Jesus who were saintly souls like Abdul Baha was. They were probably not as great as Jesus in spiritual stature but they were men of character and integrity whose words can be trusted. Both Bahaullah and Abdul Baha acknowledged that Jesus lived over 2000 years ago. By your own standards, we can say that since that Bahaullah and Abdul Baha did not produce any evidence that Jesus actually lived, they were merely spreading stories about Jesus. Also nothing that Bahaullah and Abdul Baha said about Jesus can actually be verified. Quite clearly neither Bahaullah nor Abdul Baha can meet your standards of presenting the truth. So no one else can possibly have a chance of succeeding.
 
Feb 2019
164
Chicago
#44
Some of them might be true, but Baha’u’llah is still telling us to disregard them:

“Please God thou wilt turn thine eyes towards the Most Great Revelation, and entirely disregard these conflicting tales and traditions.”
I think we agree that tales and traditions don't equate to religions. To my knowledge, Bahaullah did not say that his teachings replace all the old religions or that they were no longer necessary. But that is how you are interpreting. At least it seems to me that way.

I sure can apply Baha’u’llah’s words to any anyone who claims to a Revelation direct from God if He came after Baha’u’llah wrote the following:
That's exactly what Muslims have done to Bahaullah and drove out the Bahai's from Iran because Mohammed supposedly said that there will be no prophets after him. You are walking in the foot steps of religious fanatics. There are fanatics in all religions. More in some and less in others.

I do not have to investigate ALL the older revelations from God to know the truth about the Revelation of Baha’u’llah.
But it is wrong to say other religions are corrupted without even studying them. That's was my point. You are ignoring that.

Shoghi Effendi is not doing his own thing since nothing he wrote contradicts what Baha’u’llah wrote.
Here is evidence that Shoghi Effendi is doing his own thing. Let me quote his words and show you how ignorant he is about the Bhagavad Gita and the Bible. He is saying that the Bhagavad Gita refers to the Tenth Avatar and that is not true. Tenth Avatar is the Kalki avatar and no where in the Bhagavad Gita is the Tenth Avatar or the Kalki avatar mentioned. Shoghi Effendi is also saying that Jesus referred to Bahaullah as the Comforter but that's not true either because Jesus by Comforter was referring to the Holy Ghost. Check out these words of Jesus from the Bible and compare that to the ignorance of Shoghi Effendi that follows. I cannot produce anything from the Bhagavad Gita on the Tenth Avatar or the Kalki avatar since there is nothing in that scripture to support the ignorance of Shoghi Effendi.

Bible excerpt:

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. - John 14:26

Bible Gateway passage: John 14:26 - King James Version

Shoghi Effendi's Ignorance:

He alone is meant by the prophecy attributed to Gautama Buddha Himself, that “a Buddha named Maitreye, the Buddha of universal fellowship” should, in the fullness of time, arise and reveal “His boundless glory.” To Him the Bhagavad-Gita of the Hindus had referred as the “Most Great Spirit,” the “Tenth Avatar,” the “Immaculate Manifestation of Krishna.”

To Him Jesus Christ had referred as the “Prince of this world,” as the “Comforter” Who will “reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment,” as the “Spirit of Truth” Who “will guide you into all truth,” Who “shall not speak of Himself, but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak,” as the “Lord of the Vineyard,” and as the “Son of Man” Who “shall come in the glory of His Father” “in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory,” with “all the holy angels” about Him, and “all nations” gathered before His throne.

Bahá'í Reference Library - God Passes By, Pages 89-103

To say that the previous revelations have been abrogated is essentially what Baha’u’llah said. That is not trashing the older religions.
Where does Bahaullah explicitly say that his teachings have abrogated all previous revelations. Never has a true prophet made such a claim ever.

You are correct that the spiritual truths of all the religions are equally true, but humanity does not NEED those older religions anymore because we have a NEW religion, and as long as people cling to their older religions they will never recognize Baha’u’llah.
Not true because different religions are needed for people with different personalities and mentalities. If you read the four valleys, it is essentially describing four different spiritual paths to God. But there are also additional spiritual paths in other religions not contained in the four valleys or other teachings of Bahaullah. I am still clinging to the older religion of Hinduism but have no problem recognizing Bahuallah as an avatar or manifestation of God or a true Prophet. If your intent is to gain recognition for Bahaullah you are not going to succeed by making the false claim that Bahaullah's teachings have abrogated all past religions.

This is logic 101 stuff and it can be verified by talking to the clingers who say that do not need that “new religion.”
Your logic is flawed because you seem to be using something similar to mathematical induction. In your experience if you have always seen that birds fly, you are assuming that all birds fly but that's not true because there are some birds that don't fly. You need to broaden the horizons of your experience and stop confusing your lack of knowledge with logic.

The Dispensations were abrogated, the religions were not abrogated:
You have used the phrase religious dispensation earlier. So I got the impression that by dispensation you were referring to a religious system or order.

There have been no Manifestations of God in India since the death of Baha’u’llah.
That's not true. You are simply being ignorant. I have given you some examples but you have chosen to ignore them and just keep spreading your questionable dogma.

But Muslims do not have the original writings of Muhammad since Muhammad could not write.
Some parts of the Quran are corrupted but Bahaullah held the Quran in great reverence and you are contradicting him with your position. Here is what Bahaullah said of the Quran and this is why I say you don't understand Bahaullah well.

"...the Qur'án was an impregnable stronghold unto the people of Muhammad. In His days, whosoever entered therein, was shielded from the devilish assaults, the menacing darts, the soul-devouring doubts, and blasphemous whisperings of the enemy. Upon him was also bestowed a portion of the everlasting and goodly fruits — the fruits of wisdom, from the divine Tree. To him was given to drink the incorruptible waters of the river of knowledge, and to taste the wine of the mysteries of divine Unity.

"All the things that people required in connection with the Revelation of Muhammad and His laws were to be found revealed and manifest in that Ridván of resplendent glory. That Book constitutes an abiding testimony to its people after Muhammad, inasmuch as its decrees are indisputable, and its promise unfailing. All have been enjoined to follow the precepts of that Book until "the year sixty"1 — the year of the advent of God's wondrous Manifestation. That Book is the Book which unfailingly leadeth the seeker unto the Ridván of the divine Presence, and causeth him that hath forsaken his country and is treading the seeker's path to enter the Tabernacle of everlasting reunion. Its guidance can never err, its testimony no other testimony can excel. All other traditions, all other books and records, are bereft of such distinction, inasmuch as both the traditions and they that have spoken them are confirmed and proven solely by the text of that Book. Moreover, the traditions themselves grievously differ, and their obscurities are manifold.

"Muhammad, Himself, as the end of His mission drew nigh, spoke these words: "Verily, I leave amongst you My twin weighty testimonies: The Book of God and My Family." Although many traditions had been revealed by that Source of Prophethood and Mine of divine Guidance, yet He mentioned only that Book, thereby appointing it as the mightiest instrument and surest testimony for the seekers; a guide for the people until the Day of Resurrection."

(Bahá'u'lláh, Kitáb-i-Íqán, pars. 220-222)


"Consider, how He hath appointed and decreed this self-same Book, the Qur'án, as a guidance unto all that are in heaven and on earth. He, the divine Being, and unknowable Essence, hath, Himself, testified that this Book is, beyond all doubt and uncertainty, the guide of all mankind until the Day of Resurrection. And now, We ask, is it fair for this people to view with doubt and misgiving this most weighty Testimony, the divine origin of which God hath proclaimed, and pronounced it to be the embodiment of truth? Is it fair for them to turn away from the thing which He hath appointed as the supreme Instrument of guidance for attainment unto the loftiest summits of knowledge, and to seek aught else but that Book? How can they allow men's absurd and foolish sayings to sow the seeds of distrust in their minds? How can they any longer idly contend that a certain person hath spoken this or that way, or that a certain thing did not come to pass? Had there been anything conceivable besides the Book of God which could prove a more potent instrument and a surer guide to mankind, would He have failed to reveal it in that verse?

"It is incumbent upon us not to depart from God's irresistible injunction and fixed decree, as revealed in the above-mentioned verse. We should acknowledge the holy and wondrous Scriptures, for failing to do this we have failed to acknowledge the truth of this blessed verse. For it is evident that whoso hath failed to acknowledge the truth of the Qur'án hath in reality failed to acknowledge the truth of the preceding Scriptures. This is but the manifest implication of the verse. Were We to expound its inner meanings and unfold its hidden mysteries, eternity would never suffice to exhaust their import, nor would the universe be capable of hearing them! God verily testifieth to the truth of Our saying!"

(Bahá'u'lláh, Kitáb-i-Íqán, pars. 224-225)


"...the unfailing testimony of God to both the East and the West is none other than the Qur'án. Were it beyond the comprehension of men, how could it have been declared as a universal testimony unto all people?"

(Bahá'u'lláh, Kitáb-i-Íqán, par. 232)

So now you are going to get down and dirty by using the history of the Baha’i Faith, since you don’t have anything else.
So the shoe hurts when it is on the other foot? Every religion gets corrupted in practice because human beings are imperfect and the Bahai faith is not immune to corruption. The fact that the Bahai faith does not have a Gaurdian today as willed by Abdul Baha could itself be called corruption since it is a deviation from Abdul Baha's will. And the fact that Abdul Baha could not foresee a situation wherein the Guardian could die before appointing another Guardian could be characterized as human imperfection.
 
Jul 2017
421
Olympia, WA, USA
#45
It is not for you and me to decide what aspects were necessary. The esoteric truths relating to the creation are found in the scriptures of various religions. You don't have to accept them if you do not want to. But the reality does not change if you decide to ignore it.
As I Baha’i, I would like to retract my former statement. I believe that Creation has always existed because that is what Baha’u’llah wrote. I am under no obligation to take into account what the scriptures of past religions say. I do not know what He means by Creation; obviously the creation on earth has not always existed, so he must be referring to something else.

“As to thy question concerning the origin of creation. Know assuredly that God’s creation hath existed from eternity, and will continue to exist forever. Its beginning hath had no beginning, and its end knoweth no end. His name, the Creator, presupposeth a creation, even as His title, the Lord of Men, must involve the existence of a servant.” Gleanings, pp. 150
The gospels were written by the apostles of Jesus who were saintly souls like Abdul Baha was. They were probably not as great as Jesus in spiritual stature but they were men of character and integrity whose words can be trusted.
The Gospels were not written by the apostles of Jesus, they were written by other men who never knew Jesus. Nobody even knows who the authors were, but modern New Testament scholars say that none of the gospels could have been written by an eyewitness to the events portrayed.

The upshot is that there is no verifiable proof that Jesus rose from the dead. A story is not proof that what is written in the story is true. Anyone can write fiction. If people want to believe that Jesus rose from the dead because it makes them feel good about Jesus, God or miracles, that is their prerogative, I go with what is reasonable, rational, and congruent with science. Bodies do not rise from graves after three days.
Both Bahaullah and Abdul Baha acknowledged that Jesus lived over 2000 years ago. By your own standards, we can say that since that Bahaullah and Abdul Baha did not produce any evidence that Jesus actually lived, they were merely spreading stories about Jesus. Also nothing that Bahaullah and Abdul Baha said about Jesus can actually be verified. Quite clearly neither Bahaullah nor Abdul Baha can meet your standards of presenting the truth. So no one else can possibly have a chance of succeeding.
I do not need Abdu’l-Baha or Baha’u’llah to believe that Jesus existed. That is pretty much accepted as a fact. Not a single academic scholar today with a Ph.D. in a relevant field of study claims that Jesus did not exist. It does not matter if anything specific that Abdu’l-Baha and Baha’u’llah said about Jesus can be verified, the proof to me that Jesus was a Manifestation of God is the Gospels and the lasting effect Jesus had upon the hearts of mankind.

It also cannot be verified that Baha’u’llah was a Manifestation of God, yet I believe He was. I believe in on faith coupled with the evidence; namely Hid Life, His Person, His Revelation, and His Writings.
 
Feb 2019
164
Chicago
#46
That works for you, but it does not work for everyone else. And that does not prove that the scriptures are authentic.
In matters of religion what works for one person does not work for another person because people have different mentalities and personalities. Which is why there is need for many religions or spiritual paths to God. Scriptures contain spiritual truths whose authenticity can be verified through personal experience. You are not going to have Jesus and Moses come down and stand before you to proclaim the authenticity of their teachings. Did Bahaullah or Abdul Baha produce the birth certificate of Jesus when they talked about him to convince everyone of the authenticity of Jesus' existence over 2000 years ago?

I do not need to spend my time reading books that were written by men that are thousands of years old. I have the latest Revelation from God with original writings of a Manifestation of God
You don't have to if you are not interested but then you should not be commenting on religions and scriptures you have never studied. Your experiences with Hindus should not be equated with spiritual truths in the Hindu scriptures. Bahaullah's teachings while being a true revelation are not the latest revelation from God. There have been other manifestations of God in India that were born among Hindus who gave their own revelations. You dismissing them as false prophets without even studying their teachings is just like a Muslims calling Bahaullah a fake prophet only because Mohammed supposedly claimed that he was the last prophet.

Ask any Hindu who the founder is and they will all say something different.
No, all of them will tell you Hinduism has no founder.

It is laughable to say Hinduism has not changed over a period of 5000 years, it has more sects than Christianity.
Hinduism is not a one or two prophet religion like Christianity, Islam and Bahai religion. Hinduism produced many prophets over thousands of years and each prophet gave his own path to God. So within Hinduism there are may paths to God. Some Hindus silently meditate on the formless God. Others give a form they like and worship God through that form using various rituals. Some Hindus take the path of service and serve others with love and grow spiritually that way. Others take to Japa Yoga which is a repetition of God's name with devotion until the heart feels perfect love for God. Some Hindus take intellectual or the widsom approach to God. Every religion changes with time in practice. Even the Bahai faith did. For example, it had a Guardian at one point of time but now it does not. There are over 12 different Bahai sects as of today but it wasn't like that when it started. Calling other groups covenant breakers does not change the reality that there are multiple Bahai sects and that's not how Bahaullah envisioned it.


The following is NOT a Baha’i belief since Baha’u’llah did not teach this:

“Hinduism views mankind as divine. Because Brahma is everything, Hinduism asserts that everyone is divine. Atman, or self, is one with Brahman. All of reality outside of Brahman is considered mere illusion. The spiritual goal of a Hindu is to become one with Brahma, thus ceasing to exist in its illusory form of “individual self.””
That's exactly what Bahaullah revealed in Mathnavi-i-Mubarak and the Hidden Words. Bahaullah said there is nothing anywhere but God which is the same as saying Brahman (God) is everything. Bahaullah said that both absence from God and reunion with God are blasphemy. That's because the form of individual self is illusory and we are always one with God as Hinduism teaches. Read Mathnavi-i-Mubarak and then you will know Bahaullah taught the same truths found in Hinduism.

In fact, Baha'u'llah taught that the souls of everyone will retain their individuality for all of eternity. We will never be one with God.
Becoming one with God does not mean the soul losing individuality. Becoming one with God means realizing that we are part of God and God is in us as Bahaullah said in Mathnavi-i-Mubarak and the Hidden Words. Right now we feel we are separate from God but when we overcome that separation through spiritual effort we realize we are part of God while retaining our individuality. A rose petal does not have to lose it's individuality to realize it is part of the whole rose.

Explain to me what Bahaullah means by "Then in yourself, my sweet, seek union with Him and you'll no longer feel the Friend's absence"
What does reunion in reunion mean
And then why does he say both reunion and absence are blasphemy.

If reunion is blasphemy why does Bahaullah say reunion with God is our heavenly home. If God is not within us, why does Bahaullah says that God's house resides in hearts. If you understand Bahaullah, explain what he is saying in these words below

O SON OF BEING! Thy Paradise is My love; thy heavenly home, reunion with Me. Enter therein and tarry not. This is that which hath been destined for thee in Our kingdom above and Our exalted dominion. - Hidden Words


Know this, O youth! His House resides in hearts
and was not raised upon mere stone and clay

And when His light has bathed and cleansed your heart
your heart becomes His seat – it's His Sinai!

Within you He has placed His light, in trust;
Strive hard to make it become manifest!


Then in yourself, my sweet, seek union with Him
and you'll no longer feel the Friend's absence

You are yourself the storehouse of God's treasure,
yet heedless, you chase after this and that

Until His attributes appear in you,
know yourself as lost, in separation
When you sense for sure the spirit's mystery –
that there is nothing anywhere but God

then wash away in spirit's stream the mire
that you may see the Pure One's emanations

that you may see reunion in reunion
that you may see your heart with Beauty shine

Such union never will be contradicted
such union never ends in separation

If you've an ear for fatherly advice,
both are blasphemy: reunion, absence! - Mathnaviyi-i-Mubarak​


I do not think that Baha’u’llah was representing God in the forum of a beautiful Houri in that Tablet. That is just your projection.
Yes he was. Just read the Ode of the Dove. If the Houri was not God, why would Bahaullah seek union with her in lines 18 and 22. If I am misunderstanding, why don't you present the correct understanding. How are we supposed to understand the Houri? The truth is, you have no clue because your are only interested in dogma and trashing other religions while ignoring the mysticism of Bahaullah which is the core of the Bahai religion.

I do not understand Baha’u’llah’s teachings? I have been a Baha’i for 48 ½ years. I do not preach dogma. I share the principles that Baha’u’llah taught.
You have given a lot of evidence that you do not understand Baha’u’llah’s teachings. Your comment that Muslims do not have the revelations or teachings of Mohammed because he was illiterate just trashes the great reverence that Bahaullah had for Quran which contains Mohammed's revelations. All I hear from you is the Bahai dogma. I just hope the majority of the Bahai are not like you.

Sorry, but you cannot make Baha’u’llah in your own image. The mystical teachings are a small part of what Baha’u’llah revealed.
Mysticism is the core of any true religion. It is just that people like you are not ready for it and so Bahaullah ordered many of his mystical writings to be destroyed. The original Ode of the Dove was actually over 2000 verses long but most of them were destroyed and only a small portion retained at Bahaullah's wish and you can't even understand the tiny portion that he left us with.

The primary purpose of the Revelation of Baha’u’llah was the unity of mankind, not the spiritual transformation of the individual.
That only shows you are not even familiar with the Obligatory Prayers of the Bahai. It is difficult to believe you have been Bahai for over 48 years. The very first line of the short obligatory prayer says the purpose of human life is to know God, not unity of mankind. Please read it carefully.
 
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Feb 2019
164
Chicago
#47
As I Baha’i, I would like to retract my former statement. I believe that Creation has always existed because that is what Baha’u’llah wrote.
Yes, Bahaullah also said elsewhere that creation is "not delimited". Of all the religions, only Hinduism teaches that creation goes on endlessly without any beginning or end in a cyclic way. That is each cycle is marked by creation and destruction. Creation is followed by destruction which is followed by another period of creation. This cyclic process goes on without end. There is some information on Hindu Cosmology here Hindu cosmology - Wikipedia with lot of references. But you may wonder how creation had no beginning. That's because creation exists in time-space continuum. Both time and space are mere ideas in Consciousness (Spirit) and everything happens within that Consciousness. So creation is nothing but a set of ideas in Consciousness which is why creation is said to be illusory and it will vanish for you when your third eye or the spiritual eye opens and everything is seen as a set of ideas in Consciousness.

I do not know what He means by Creation; obviously the creation on earth has not always existed, so he must be referring to something else.
By Creation he is referring to all of God's creation not just the earth which just like a tiny speck of dust in the entire creation. Everyday many new stars and planets are born in Creation and many die. So if the earth came in to existence at a particular point in time, it does not mean the rest of the Creation did not exist before earth. According to Hinduism, there are many planets like earth.

The Gospels were not written by the apostles of Jesus, they were written by other men who never knew Jesus. Nobody even knows who the authors were, but modern New Testament scholars say that none of the gospels could have been written by an eyewitness to the events portrayed.
That may be your belief but when you meditate on the esoteric truths found in the gospels, you will intuitively realize that they can come only from spiritually advanced souls like the apostles. But your agenda is to trash them. Traditionally Christians believe the gospels were written by apostles. For texts that are about 2000 years old you will never find "official records".

The upshot is that there is no verifiable proof that Jesus rose from the dead.
If the gospels are no proof, then by the same standards, it can also be argued that the revelations of Bahaullah are no proof that he was a manifestation of God. Your faith collapses like a pack of cards if we measure your faith by your own standards. You are practicing double standards like all religious fanatics do.

If people want to believe that Jesus rose from the dead because it makes them feel good about Jesus, God or miracles, that is their prerogative, I go with what is reasonable, rational, and congruent with science. Bodies do not rise from graves after three days.
There have been Hindu prophets who rose from the dead. Read the lives of Kabir, Lahiri Mahasaya and Swami Sri Yukteshwar and you will know that resurrection of Jesus is not a unique event. You say you go with what is reasonable, rational, and congruent with science but the birth of Jesus to a virgin which was acknowledged as true by Shoghi Effendi is not a rational belief that is congruent with science. Are you willing to proclaim that Shoghi Effendi was wrong? See what he says about the birth of Jesus to Virgin Mary

Shoghi Effendi on birth of Jesus

“With regard to your question concerning the Virgin Birth of Jesus; on this point, as on several others, the Bahá’í teachings are in full agreement with the doctrines of the Catholic Church. In the Kitáb-i-Íqán (Book of Certitude) page 56, and in a few other Tablets still unpublished, Bahá’u’lláh confirms, however indirectly, the Catholic conception of the Virgin Birth. Also ‘Abdu’l-Bahá in ‘Some Answered Questions’, Chap. 12, page 73, explicitly states that Christ found existence through the spirit of God which statement necessarily implies, when reviewed in the light of the text, that Jesus was not the son of Joseph.”

“We believe that Christ only was conceived immaculately. His brothers and sisters would have been born in the natural way and conceived naturally.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Directives from the Guardian, Page 40

I do not need Abdu’l-Baha or Baha’u’llah to believe that Jesus existed. That is pretty much accepted as a fact.
So your beliefs are facts to you and other people's beliefs cannot be facts to them? Tell me how you convert a belief in to a fact. What evidence or proof has Shoghi Effendi, Abdul Baha or Bahaullah produced to assert that Jesus was born to a virgin. The truth is that they have produced is no verifiable evidence. We only have their word to go by and that's not considered proof or evidence by any standards of law or science. You just assert your beliefs to be facts and dismiss other peoples beliefs to be stories. That's a gross double standard quite common among religious fanatics.
 
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Feb 2019
164
Chicago
#48
The Gospels were not written by the apostles of Jesus, they were written by other men who never knew Jesus. Nobody even knows who the authors were, but modern New Testament scholars say that none of the gospels could have been written by an eyewitness to the events portrayed.

The upshot is that there is no verifiable proof that Jesus rose from the dead. A story is not proof that what is written in the story is true. Anyone can write fiction. If people want to believe that Jesus rose from the dead because it makes them feel good about Jesus, God or miracles, that is their prerogative, I go with what is reasonable, rational, and congruent with science. Bodies do not rise from graves after three days.
Historical facts, that is laughable. There are no historical facts surrounding the New Testament. It is all stories that cannot be verified by anyone, and are thus believed on faith alone. If they were historical facts everyone would be a Christian
Trailblazer,

Bahá’u’lláh himself has testified that the original Message of Jesus has not been lost. I just wanted to share it with you since you seemed to have missed it despite being a Bahai for over 48 years. Here are Bahaullah words

"We have also heard a number of the foolish of the earth assert that the genuine text of the heavenly Gospel doth not exist amongst the Christians, that it hath ascended unto heaven. How grievously they have erred! How oblivious of the fact that such a statement imputeth the gravest injustice and tyranny to a gracious and living Providence! How could God, when once the daystar of the beauty of Jesus had disappeared from the sight of His people, and ascended unto the fourth heaven, cause His holy Book, His most great testimony amongst His creatures, to disappear also? What would be left to that people to cling to from the setting of the daystar of Jesus until the rise of the sun of the Muhammadan Dispensation?" - Bahaullah in Kitáb-i-Íqán, page 89

The disciples of Christ taught His Faith with the language of the Kingdom. That language conformeth to all languages, for it consisteth of celestial meanings and divine mysteries. For the one who becometh conversant with that language the realities and secrets of creation stand unveiled before him. Divine truths are common to all languages. The Holy Spirit, therefore, taught the disciples the language of the Kingdom, and they thus were able to converse with the people of all nations. Whenever they spoke to those of other nations of the world, it was as if they conversed in their tongues. The well-known and outstanding languages of the world number about a thousand. It was necessary for the disciples to have written the Gospels in at least one of the languages of other nations. Thus, as it is known, the Gospels were written only in Hebrew and Greek, and not even in the language of the Romans, although it was at the time the official language. As the disciples were not well-versed in it, the Gospels were not written in that language. (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, from a previously untranslated Tablet, Extracts From The Bahá’í Writings And From Letters Of The Guardian And The Universal House Of Justice On The Old And New Testaments)

"The Holy Gospels alone contain teachings which can be regarded as the true Words of God; and these teachings do not exceed the contents of a few pages." - Mirza 'Abdu'l-Fad'l, Apostle of Bahá'u'lláh

-Venu
 
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Likes: Jcc
Mar 2013
565
Edwardsville, Illinois, USA
#49
Venu,

In the above quotes you have well summarized many aspects regarding the truth of the Holy Scriptures. Baha’u’llah made clear that the “Gospel” was not corrupted, contrary to what most Muslim scholars asserted. As I related in an earlier post, “Gospel” can refer to the whole New Testament, not just the four Gospels.

What Mirza Abu-Fadl said was making a very different point, which is that the actual words of Jesus quoted in the Gospels are few. The implication is that the directly quoted words of Jesus have far greater spiritual weight than the words of the Apostles, and I agree with that assessment. That doesn’t mean that the words of the Apostles are not the Word of God, I believe God inspired them, and that the whole Bible is inspired, even though many parts are from multiple sources that were edited together. Biblical scholars spend their whole careers trying to figure out what material was used as sources. The whole Bible is inspired by God, but how it came to its current form is a mystery that no one can answer precisely. I believe this is true for Hindu scriptures also.

In the Revelation of Baha’u’llah, we have a great bounty that all of the original sources exist, many in the handwriting of Baha’u’llah Himself, or a known scribe who can be identified by handwriting. Therefore, this is the standard for “authentic” writings. There is such an abundance of writings with original manuscripts that sayings and second hand accounts are not considered Scripture. This would not be possible for older Revelations, where the originals no longer exist.
 
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Likes: tonyfish58
Jul 2017
421
Olympia, WA, USA
#50
I think we agree that tales and traditions don't equate to religions. To my knowledge, Bahaullah did not say that his teachings replace all the old religions or that they were no longer necessary. But that is how you are interpreting. At least it seems to me that way.
Baha’u’llah enjoined humanity to turn towards His Revelation and He explained why.

“Please God thou wilt turn thine eyes towards the Most Great Revelation...” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 174-175

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination. Thou dost witness how most of the commentaries and interpretations of the words of God, now current amongst men, are devoid of truth. Their falsity hath, in some cases, been exposed when the intervening veils were rent asunder. They themselves have acknowledged their failure in apprehending the meaning of any of the words of God.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 171-172

To me these passages mean that to “please God” we will turn towards the Revelation of Baha’u’llah. I interpret that as saying His teachings are what God wants us to turn to in this age. That is not the same as saying they replace the teachings of the older religions. They do not replace them because they cannot be replaced since they were all Revelations from God:

"Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 59-60

That's exactly what Muslims have done to Bahaullah and drove out the Bahai's from Iran because Mohammed supposedly said that there will be no prophets after him. You are walking in the foot steps of religious fanatics. There are fanatics in all religions. More in some and less in others.
No, it is NOT what Muslims did, because Baha’u’llah wrote that there WILL be more Prophets in the future, as long as humankind exists.

“From the foregoing passages and allusions it hath been made indubitably clear that in the kingdoms of earth and heaven there must needs be manifested a Being, an Essence Who shall act as a Manifestation and Vehicle for the transmission of the grace of the Divinity Itself, the Sovereign Lord of all. Through the Teachings of this Day Star of Truth every man will advance and develop until he attaineth the station at which he can manifest all the potential forces with which his inmost true self hath been endowed. It is for this very purpose that in every age and dispensation the Prophets of God and His chosen Ones have appeared amongst men,and have evinced such power as is born of God and such might as only the Eternal can reveal.

Can one of sane mind ever seriously imagine that, in view of certain words the meaning of which he cannot comprehend, the portal of God’s infinite guidance can ever be closed in the face of men? Can he ever conceive for these Divine Luminaries, these resplendent Lights either a beginning or an end? What outpouring flood can compare with the stream of His all-embracing grace, and what blessing can excel the evidences of so great and pervasive a mercy? There can be no doubt whatever that if for one moment the tide of His mercy and grace were to be withheld from the world, it would completely perish. For this reason, from the beginning that hath no beginning the portals of Divine mercy have been flung open to the face of all created things, and the clouds of Truth will continue to the end that hath no end to rain on the soil of human capacity, reality and personality their favors and bounties. Such hath been God’s method continued from everlasting to everlasting.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 67-69

Baha’u’llah KNEW there could be no more Prophets for 1000 years because God told him. The way for Baha’u’llah to protect people from believing in false prophets was to give a timeline.
But it is wrong to say other religions are corrupted without even studying them. That's was my point. You are ignoring that.
I do not have to study them to know that. As the passage above says “Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination.”

Since I believe that Baha’u’llah speaks with the same Authority as God, I can take His Word on it. I am not so arrogant that I think “I know” more than God.

Besides all that, I have NO REASON to study older religions when I have all I need in the Revelation of Baha’u’llah. I only need one religion. YMMV.
Here is evidence that Shoghi Effendi is doing his own thing. Let me quote his words and show you how ignorant he is about the Bhagavad Gita and the Bible. He is saying that the Bhagavad Gita refers to the Tenth Avatar and that is not true. Tenth Avatar is the Kalki avatar and no where in the Bhagavad Gita is the Tenth Avatar or the Kalki avatar mentioned.
I do not know anything about the Bhagavad Gita and the Tenth Avatar, but I have no more reason to believe you know more than Shoghi Effendi.
Shoghi Effendi is also saying that Jesus referred to Bahaullah as the Comforter but that's not true either because Jesus by Comforter was referring to the Holy Ghost. Check out these words of Jesus from the Bible and compare that to the ignorance of Shoghi Effendi that follows. I cannot produce anything from the Bhagavad Gita on the Tenth Avatar or the Kalki avatar since there is nothing in that scripture to support the ignorance of Shoghi Effendi.

Bible excerpt:

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. - John 14:26

Bible Gateway passage: John 14:26 - King James Version
I am not going around that block with you, as I have been around it with Christians. The Comforter is the Holy Spirit that was sent by God to Baha’u’llah who brought it to humanity. That is why Bahaullah was called the Comforter, which is simply a title. Baha’u’llah claimed to be the Comforter as I said in my other post so I do not need Shoghi Effendi to tell me this.

Christians believe that the Comforter and Spirit of truth are the Holy Spirit that Jesus sent at Pentecost to live inside of them, but a spirit living inside of people cannot DO any of the following things that are in John 14, 15 and 16; only a man could do those things:
  • Teach you all things
  • Call to remembrance what Jesus said
  • Testify of Jesus
  • Glorify Jesus, receive of Jesus, and shew it unto you
  • Guide you into all truth
  • Speak what He hears and shew you things to come
  • Reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment
Baha’u’llah did all these things and as a result of His revelation the world will be reproved the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. No spirit living inside of Christians is going to do this. This is illogical.
Where does Bahaullah explicitly say that his teachings have abrogated all previous revelations. Never has a true prophet made such a claim ever.
Shoghi Effendi said the religious dispensations have been abrogated, not that the teachings have been abrogated. I do not care if that was never said by a Prophet before, this is a new cycle of religion, the Cycle of Fulfillment so what happened in the past is not going to recur. You can choose to believe that or reject it, but that is what the Baha’i Faith claims.
Not true because different religions are needed for people with different personalities and mentalities. If you read the four valleys, it is essentially describing four different spiritual paths to God. But there are also additional spiritual paths in other religions not contained in the four valleys or other teachings of Bahaullah. I am still clinging to the older religion of Hinduism but have no problem recognizing Bahuallah as an avatar or manifestation of God or a true Prophet. If your intent is to gain recognition for Bahaullah you are not going to succeed by making the false claim that Bahaullah's teachings have abrogated all past religions.
God is not a tailor who tailors religions to suit people with different personalities and mentalities. If they do not like the Baha’i Faith they can choose to reject it because we all have free will.

You have a choice to cling to the older religions if you want to, but when you reject what Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi wrote you are rejecting the Revelation of Baha’u’llah because you are throwing out the Covenant that Baha’u’llah made with His followers.

God’s religion is not revealed for meeting YOUR needs or the needs of any particular person or group of people. It is revealed for ALL of humanity.
You have used the phrase religious dispensation earlier. So I got the impression that by dispensation you were referring to a religious system or order.
No, a religious dispensation is a period of time in history. It is a distinctive arrangement or period in history that forms the framework through which God relates to mankind.
That's not true. You are simply being ignorant. I have given you some examples but you have chosen to ignore them and just keep spreading your questionable dogma.
Believe whatever you want to but you will not convince me that there have been any Manifestations of God since Baha’u’llah.
So the shoe hurts when it is on the other foot? Every religion gets corrupted in practice because human beings are imperfect and the Bahai faith is not immune to corruption. The fact that the Bahai faith does not have a Gaurdian today as willed by Abdul Baha could itself be called corruption since it is a deviation from Abdul Baha's will. And the fact that Abdul Baha could not foresee a situation wherein the Guardian could die before appointing another Guardian could be characterized as human imperfection.
To say that the Baha’i Faith is corrupt because there was no Guardian is false. I suggest you read this book, even though you will have to order it because in is not in the Baha’i Reference Library. You will never understand the Baha’i Faith unless you understand what is in this book.

The Covenant of Baha'u'llah

Every religion has been corrupted in the past because there was no binding Covenant to protect it from being corrupted. But this is a new religious cycle and it is a completely different ball game. That book above explains why. This is a day that will not be followed by night:

“O Temple of Holiness! We, verily, have cleansed Thy breast from the whisperings of the people and sanctified it from earthly allusions, that the light of My beauty may appear therein and be reflected in the mirrors of all the worlds. Thus have We singled Thee out above all that hath been created in the heavens and the earth, and above all that hath been decreed in the realms of revelation and creation, and chosen Thee for Our own Self. This is but an evidence of the bounty which God hath vouchsafed unto Thee, a bounty which shall last until the Day that hath no end in this contingent world. It shall endure so long as God, the Supreme King, the Help in Peril, the Mighty, the Wise, shall endure. For the Day of God is none other but His own Self, Who hath appeared with the power of truth. This is the Day that shall not be followed by night, nor shall it be bounded by any praise, would that ye might understand!” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, pp. 34-35

 

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