Flat earth

Jul 2015
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In a discussion of flat earth beliefs the question arose: why did people believe for so long that the earth was flat?

After some time the answer was found; because that is how it looks to us.

So this then begged another question; how would it look if the earth were actually round, and circled the sun?

Answer: exactly the same.

So then we come on to Bahai, which purports to accept most (all?) other faiths, and to respect their prophets as true prophets. It presents itself as uniquely loving and accepting.

However, I learn today that Bahai also asks followers of these other faiths to leave their churches, mosques and synagogues and worship only in its own temples.

Which in turn begs the question; how would it look if Bahai rejected all other faiths, all other prophets, regarded them all as utterly false and disrespected every single word they say?

Answer: exactly the same.

The tree is known by its fruit.
 
Sep 2010
4,604
Normanton, Far North West Queensland
In a discussion of flat earth beliefs the question arose: why did people believe for so long that the earth was flat?

After some time the answer was found; because that is how it looks to us.

So this then begged another question; how would it look if the earth were actually round, and circled the sun?

Answer: exactly the same.

So then we come on to Bahai, which purports to accept most (all?) other faiths, and to respect their prophets as true prophets. It presents itself as uniquely loving and accepting.

However, I learn today that Bahai also asks followers of these other faiths to leave their churches, mosques and synagogues and worship only in its own temples.

Which in turn begs the question; how would it look if Bahai rejected all other faiths, all other prophets, regarded them all as utterly false and disrespected every single word they say?

Answer: exactly the same.

The tree is known by its fruit.
Dear Cathie - You have started a thread on a misconception, a misunderstanding of a reply to a person who had become a Baha'i. No person of any Faith is given this advice, unless they have accepted Baha'u'llah, and then it is only advice up to the believer in Baha'u'llah to decide to act upon or not.

Do you wish to continue this thread knowing this? You can delete it or we can a move on discussing the reality of this issue in a positive manner.

God bless and regards Tony
 
Aug 2014
1,399
Blue Planet
In a discussion of flat earth beliefs the question arose: why did people believe for so long that the earth was flat?

After some time the answer was found; because that is how it looks to us.

So this then begged another question; how would it look if the earth were actually round, and circled the sun?

Answer: exactly the same.

So then we come on to Bahai, which purports to accept most (all?) other faiths, and to respect their prophets as true prophets. It presents itself as uniquely loving and accepting.

However, I learn today that Bahai also asks followers of these other faiths to leave their churches, mosques and synagogues and worship only in its own temples.

Which in turn begs the question; how would it look if Bahai rejected all other faiths, all other prophets, regarded them all as utterly false and disrespected every single word they say?

Answer: exactly the same.

The tree is known by its fruit.
wrong reasoning and wrong conclusion....
I will explain it with an example:
you have said : " how would it look if Bahai rejected all other faiths, all other prophets, regarded them all as utterly false and disrespected every single word they say?" and then you have answered : "exactly the same" which is the wrong conclusion based on the wrong story you had told at the beginning. I will tel you how it would look if Baha'i rejected all other faiths and prophets. it would look something like Vahabis nowadays or an extremist Islamic group called "Daesh". they believe that the only true religion is Islam. they don't believe in many of the past religions and those in which they believe, they also believe that they have changed so much that now they are only names. so for example they believe that Christianity nowadays is only a name and not a single truth has remained within it. as a result they KILL any person who doesn't act according to their ideas. Vahabis say that if they can kill 20 Muslims, they can enter heaven. Daesh people kill those woman who don't wear Hejab and they also kill those people who don't fast in fasting month.
do you have a clearer idea now of how it would look like if a faith rejects all faiths and prophets before itself?
if Bahai rejected the faiths, prophets and people of past religions, then we could have not welcomed people of all religions in our worship houses, neither in Bahai forums.
it is always the best if we don't let ourselves judge things and people in time of anger or when we don't have enough knowledge :)
 
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Oct 2013
697
Glenwood, Queensland, Australia
Good morning most dear friend

In a discussion of ...
Let us, for the sake of just a different view, look at this a different way.

Today is, for me, Sunday. Well, almost the end of the day - two and a half more hours, and it will be Gregorian Tuesday.

Now, when the sun arose early this morning, by long-standing convention we called it Sunday.

Tomorrow morning when the sun comes over the horizon again, we will, by that same long-standing convention, call that day Monday.

When the sun crosses from not visible on the next morning to being visible, we will call it Tuesday.

And so on for Wednesday, and Thursday, and Friday, and Saturday.

In each of these days, we recognise a great many simultudes. Yet, it is the identical sun that arises each morning. So why do we call it a different name? The only difference is that the earth has turned, and we have passed from daylight into darkness, and back to daylight. The sun has not changed, only our position in space and time. We do so because we see the sun from only our own point of view, regardless the truth that it is the same sun.

When the Blessed Saviour arose in what we now know as Israel, He represented the rising of the Sun in the morning. The Sun which we called Moses had risen, then passed through its daytime and merged through until night. During that night, the life of the spirit became cold - superstition, dogma, divisions, and all those things that come when the Light of Heaven becomes not visible, when people withdraw into the graves of their bodies and become asleep...

But that Great Joy, the arising of the Sun given forth by Jesus the Christ, brought forth a new morning. At first, it seemed to have no warmth. Such that, in ignorance and fanaticism, His Blessed Body was hung on a cross, and He became offered by God as a sacrifice. But consider how, over the time subsequent, His Light and Heat, the very Light and Heat of the Spirit which He brought gained in strength, till today - how may kings and queens how their heads at His alter, how many souls have given their all for His sake? How great is His Dominion of peoples and hearts.

There is another great difference between this time and the earlier times. With all the earlier Prophets, those Manifestations of Divinity and Holiness, salvation had been for those who followed, and the rest were left as the other; the infidel, the unbeliever. Even up to and including the Revelation of the Bab.

But with this Revelation, with this arising of the Sun, with the Brightness and Holiness that is in the One we call Baha'u'llah, this has changed. There are non to be left out. There are none to be ostracised. There are none to be denied. Any individual who does so is not acting in accord with the Teachings of Baha'u'llah.

Consider. Had Jesus come with the name of Moses, would He have succeeded in uniting so many antagonistic and warring peoples from so many places? Already they had not accepted Moses, so had Jesus merely promulgated the Faith of His bodily ancestors, it would not have served the Great Purpose of God. And so, those who follow Christ are not called Jews, they are called Christians.

Recall, that though to our physical eyes the sun appears to rise each morning from the same place on the horizon, yet it is scientifically demonstrated that it moves, ever so fractionally, a fact which is most clearly evidenced as the seasons pass.

WE may say, as is in the Bible, that Book of the Word of God, that every day is equal to a year, and every year to a day. Meditate upon this mystery.

As today is called Sunday, and tomorrow is called Monday, and the next day is Tuesday, and so on, yet it is the same sun which shines on each of these days, so too has the bearer of every Faith been called by a different Name, even though it is the same Sun which is reflected through and by their Blessed Persons.

Bear in mind that the Truth is the Truth, and it is absolutely and utterly independent of our belief or acceptance. It stand separate from our belief and acceptance, for it is the Truth. Should we accept and believe the Truth, it is to our own behoof and benefit - the Truth still remains unaffected. And should we choose not to accept or believe the Truth, it is only our self that is affected, for the Truth still remains the Truth.

I will end with advice given by Baha'u'llah which can be abstracted from the spiritual context in which it is given and be applied as a general principle. He says, in relation to the search for Truth:

"He must so cleanse his heart that no remnant of either love or hate may linger therein, lest that love blindly incline him to error, or that hate repel him away from the truth."
(The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 177)

Such is the way of science, and such must be the way for any serious soul.

my most warm greetings

Romane
 
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Jun 2015
389
.
Tony, Josh.

Good day, gentlemen. Please advise me:

If Cathy were to become a Baha'i today, and if she were to seek guidance from the Universal House of Justice as to where and how she should worship, what would their reply be?

Many thanks, and have a great day.

Paul
 
Nov 2012
949
Florida
If Cathy were to become a Baha'i today, and if she were to seek guidance from the Universal House of Justice as to where and how she should worship, what would their reply be?

At the beginning of every Baha'i month (every 19 days) Baha'is gather for the 19 Day Feast. This was instituted by the Bab and ratified by Baha'u'llah Himself. It consists of three parts. 1. Spiritual--reading from the Baha'i Writings, or from any Holy Book of previous religions. 2. Administrative--the community consults on community business and is free to make requests to the Local Spiritual Assembly. As only Baha'is are allowed to contribute funds to their Faith, all have input about how those funds are used. 3. Social portion--food and fellowship. It is interesting to note that for this portion of the feast, Baha'u'llah said that even if only water is available, that would be sufficient.

"Verily, it is enjoined upon you to offer a feast, once in every month, though only water be served; for God hath purposed to bind hearts together, albeit through both earthly and heavenly means."
-Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas

"As to the Nineteen Day Feast, it rejoiceth mind and heart. If this feast be held in the proper fashion, the friends will, once in nineteen days, find themselves spiritually restored, and endued with a power that is not of this world."
-Selection from the Writings of Abdu'l-Bahá, p 91

In addition to the 19 Day Feast, Baha'is are free to worship with whomever, however and wherever they wish. As was previously mentioned, while maintaining an official membership in another religious body is discouraged, no Baha'i is ever restricted from attending any gathering or worship service of any other religious community.
 
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Jun 2015
389
.
At the beginning of every Baha'i month (every 19 days) Baha'is gather for the 19 Day Feast. This was instituted by the Bab and ratified by Baha'u'llah Himself. It consists of three parts. 1. Spiritual--reading from the Baha'i Writings, or from any Holy Book of previous religions. 2. Administrative--the community consults on community business and is free to make requests to the Local Spiritual Assembly. As only Baha'is are allowed to contribute funds to their Faith, all have input about how those funds are used. 3. Social portion--food and fellowship. It is interesting to note that for this portion of the feast, Baha'u'llah said that even if only water is available, that would be sufficient.

"Verily, it is enjoined upon you to offer a feast, once in every month, though only water be served; for God hath purposed to bind hearts together, albeit through both earthly and heavenly means."
-Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas

"As to the Nineteen Day Feast, it rejoiceth mind and heart. If this feast be held in the proper fashion, the friends will, once in nineteen days, find themselves spiritually restored, and endued with a power that is not of this world."
-Selection from the Writings of Abdu'l-Bahá, p 91

In addition to the 19 Day Feast, Baha'is are free to worship with whomever, however and wherever they wish. As was previously mentioned, while maintaining an official membership in another religious body is discouraged, no Baha'i is ever restricted from attending any gathering or worship service of any other religious community.
Hi Josh,

Many thanks.

So, she becomes a Baha'i and attends the 19 Day Feasts. But at the same time - for whatever reason - she continues to enjoy full communion with the Anglican Church.

In what manner would this be 'discouraged': By a gentle 'we do wish you would stop this' or by the threat of being declared a 'Covenant Breaker'?

Many thanks.

Paul.
 
Nov 2012
949
Florida
Hi Josh,

Many thanks.

So, she becomes a Baha'i and attends the 19 Day Feasts. But at the same time - for whatever reason - she continues to enjoy full communion with the Anglican Church.

In what manner would this be 'discouraged': By a gentle 'we do wish you would stop this' or by the threat of being declared a 'Covenant Breaker'
That would definitely not be considered 'Covenant breaking', but a contradiction. For example, if a Christian maintained a full membership with a Jewish Synagogue, that would be a contradiction, as one group recognizes Jesus, and the other does not.

In any event, it would be up to the Local Spiritual Assembly to decide what to do, if anything. From my own experience, I have never seen this to be much of an issue, and I've never personally known any Baha'i who maintained an additional membership.

For the record, covenant-breakers are extremely few in number, and one could only be identified as such by the Universal House of Justice.


Definition of Covenant-breaking:

"In trying to arrive at a definition of Covenant-breaking, a number of points need to be born in mind: those who merely oppose the Bahá'í Faith or its head (such as the many Muslim religious leaders who have done so) are not considered Covenant-breakers; those who leave the Bahá'í Faith because they have lost faith are similarly not considered Covenant-breakers; and those who commit minor infractions of Bahá'í law may loose their administrative rights, but are not considered Covenant-breakers. It is those who remain within the Bahá'í community, professing loyalty to the Bahá'í Cause and yet oppose the authorized leadership of the Bahá'í Faith or actively try to split the Bahá'í community by setting up an alternative center of leadership who are considered Covenant-breakers."

-(from) The Covenant, and Covenant-breaker, by Moojan Momen, 1995
 
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Nov 2012
949
Florida
That 'unconditional love' is getting more and more conditional the more I look.
I enjoyed this article by Jennifer Campbell:


I’ll take your bad days with your good
Walk through this storm I would
I’d do it all because I love you, I love you.
-”Unconditionally” - Katy Perry

Do you believe in unconditional love?

Katy Perry’s song “Unconditionally” sweetly and magically sums up my own idea of unconditional love. Lyrically, this song hints that it entails accepting someone completely, as when Perry sings, “come just as you are to me.”

“[Taking] your bad days with your good” reinforces the concept of loving someone regardless of circumstances, mood, or any internal or external factors.

We sometimes associate unconditional love with altruism, or selfless concern for the well-being of others. One online dictionary defines it as a type of affection without limitations or conditions. In other words, unconditional love involves complete acceptance of all flaws, selflessness, and steadfast devotion, with no conditions attached.

Is such a love even possible, you might ask?

Let’s examine some possibilities, beginning with parental affection. We might imagine that the idealistic feelings a mother first has for her baby should include unconditional love, meaning that no matter what the child does or says, her love for her child remains unwavering. If her child makes mistakes, she still loves him. Whether rich or poor; fat or thin; successful or struggling; she loves her offspring. Despite disagreements or different beliefs, her love for her child remains unchanging. Unconditionally means just that: no conditions or requirements attached to the relationship.

While that example might describe our lofty ideal of a parent’s love for her child, what about the love between a married couple–could spouses possibly experience this kind of love?

I believe they can, because I’ve experienced unconditional love. The love between my husband and me definitely falls into this category. We love each other regardless of sickness, mistakes, financial hardship, or any other of life’s inevitable trials and difficulties. I’ve come home from tough days at work, my patience spent and in an unpleasant mood, and my husband’s sense of humor, moral support, and hugs portray his unwavering affection for me. I’ve also known friends and family who’ve shown this unconditional positive regard for their mates.

What does religion say about unconditional love? Baha’u'llah said that God created humanity out of love:

O Son of Man! Veiled in My immemorial being and in the ancient eternity of My essence, I knew My love for thee; therefore I created thee, have engraved on thee Mine image and revealed to thee My beauty. – Baha’u'llah, The Hidden Words, p. 4

Christianity, too, beautifully describes the qualities of unconditional love. Many people know the following Biblical quote:

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. – 1 Corinthians 13.4-7

As this quote infers, love involves kindness, selflessness, patience and acceptance, truth, trust, and hopefulness. Love does not, on the other hand, involve anger, hatred, boastfulness, grudge-holding, or jealousy. When we love each other, it should be with a ray of God’s unconditional love for us:

Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God – 1 John 4:7

Based upon these writings from Christianity and the Baha’i Faith, we know that God created us out of love; that true, unconditional love encompasses qualities like acceptance and selflessness; and that, ultimately, we’ve been created so we might love each other.

Perhaps, while reading this article, you’ve struggled with the concept of unconditional love because you’ve suffered an abusive upbringing, or you were juggled between orphanages, foster care environments, or step-parents’ homes. Perhaps you left an abusive relationship and started a new life in a different country. These circumstances make you special and spiritually strong, but not any less capable of experiencing love.

I’ve seen amazing examples of remarkable souls who’ve experienced horrible abuse, torture, and neglect, only to develop into the most kind and unconditionally loving humans. The Tahirih Justice Center, a Baha’i-inspired organization, helps such remarkable souls–women attempting to escape situations like domestic abuse and human trafficking. These women are survivors rather than victims, learning how to move on from their violent pasts and find love and appreciation.

I believe in unconditional love. I believe it’s possible to love our children, our spouses, and our fellow human beings–unconditionally. Perhaps the question is not whether we can try or whether it’s possible; perhaps it’s simply a question of putting your love into your actions.
 
Aug 2014
1,399
Blue Planet
I can't really understand why people (some-not all) like to attack our faith this ardently!!! this manner is not acceptable in any faith; it is not accepted in Christianity!