God's All Encompassing Knowledge

Aug 2014
1,397
Blue Planet
Allaho Abha

I am studying a tablet by Bahaullah recently; Lowhe Seraj (I do not know if there is any translations of it in English)
one of part of the Tablet, Bahaullah says, the Bab has said that IF He knew that a Jew at His time, would believe in Whom God Shall Make manifest, He (The Bab) would undoubtedly give him a high station. and IF He knew one of His letters of the Living would later on become disobedient to Whom God Shall Make Manifest, He would not have called that person a letter of the living.

now the question came to my mind, is that possible that the Manifestation of God doesn't know something? since He is the most complete and highest level of Manifestation of God on earth, should His knowledge not be perfectly complete?
 
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Sep 2010
4,589
Normanton, Far North West Queensland
Allaho Abha

I am studying a tablet by Bahaullah recently; Lowhe Seraj (I do not know if there is any translations of it in English)
one of part of the Tablet, Bahaullah says, the Bab has said that IF He knew that a Jew at His time, would believe in Whom God Shall Make manifest, He (The Bab) would undoubtedly give him a high station. and IF He knew one of His letters of the Living would later on become disobedient to Whom God Shall Make Manifest, He would not have called that person a letter of the living.

now the question came to my mind, is that possible that the Manifestation of God doesn't know something? since He is the most complete and highest level of Manifestation of God on earth, should His knowledge not be perfectly complete?
I see that these are worded in way that makes us consider what is being said.

The Bab also said he had to wait until the first believer was ready to find him before the message could be proclaimed.

I guess we can never know what they knew 🤔😁

Regards Tony
 
Jun 2014
1,096
Wisconsin
Allaho Abha

I am studying a tablet by Bahaullah recently; Lowhe Seraj (I do not know if there is any translations of it in English)
one of part of the Tablet, Bahaullah says, the Bab has said that IF He knew that a Jew at His time, would believe in Whom God Shall Make manifest, He (The Bab) would undoubtedly give him a high station. and IF He knew one of His letters of the Living would later on become disobedient to Whom God Shall Make Manifest, He would not have called that person a letter of the living.

now the question came to my mind, is that possible that the Manifestation of God doesn't know something? since He is the most complete and highest level of Manifestation of God on earth, should His knowledge not be perfectly complete?
I would say a Manifestation has all the knowledge sufficient to the needs of their cause. It is possible they have more knowledge than this, but I cannot say for sure. There are Hadiths that indicate that Muhammad did not have knowledge of agriculture, and one of the Gospels says that Jesus didn't know which season dates grew on date trees, so perhaps the knowledge isn't all-encompassing, but specific to their needs.
 
Aug 2014
1,397
Blue Planet
I would say a Manifestation has all the knowledge sufficient to the needs of their cause. It is possible they have more knowledge than this, but I cannot say for sure. There are Hadiths that indicate that Muhammad did not have knowledge of agriculture, and one of the Gospels says that Jesus didn't know which season dates grew on date trees, so perhaps the knowledge isn't all-encompassing, but specific to their needs.
that is a good guess. I just wonder how the most complete Manifestation of God cannot have the knowledge of all things. But your explanation is logical to me.
 
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Sep 2010
4,589
Normanton, Far North West Queensland
that is a good guess. I just wonder how the most complete Manifestation of God cannot have the knowledge of all things. But your explanation is logical to me.
Baha'u'llah has said whenever He needed to know something, the knowledge was there.

I always consider Baha'u'llah knows all our thoughts and everything is written on tablets of crystallite.

There is a post on a forum against the Faith where it quotes Baha'u'llah referred to a book to give an informed answer. My guess is He did not have to refer to that book.

Regards Tony
 
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Aug 2014
1,397
Blue Planet
Yes, I agree with you Tony, about Baha'u'llah not needing to refer to any books. He sometimes refer to lines in Masnavi or Attar (Persian mystic poets) but He does this maybe only because these people are His favorites and they writings had already been very well known among people.
It is a good guess to say there is all kind of knowledge in the Messenger's heart, and He can know they whenever He needs them. I am also thinking that maybe, the more the faith of God grows, I mean since the time of Adam until Bahaullah and until the end of time, the more potentiality in the Messengers come to reality. I mean, just like there is the potential in an apple seed to become an apple tree through time, yet the apple seed, manifests only a part of its potentiality at each time, until it finally becomes a tree. (which in case of the Manifestations, is a never ending process)
 
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Jcc

Mar 2013
577
Edwardsville, Illinois, USA
I think that when the Manifestations sometimes speak in terms of not knowing something it is more a rhetorical device to show the connection between things. For instance, to say "IF He knew that a Jew at His time, would believe in Whom God Shall Make manifest," He is really saying simply "if a Jew believed in Whom God Shall Make manifest...," The point is the Jew believing, not whether the Bab knew about it or not.

In the case of the Letters of the Living is interesting. I learned recently that at least one of the Letters of the Living lost his faith after some time. So, if you took the statement literally, " IF He knew one of His letters of the Living would later on become disobedient to Whom God Shall Make Manifest, He would not have called that person a letter of the living. " you could wonder if the Bab knew that this would occur, and then why was that person allowed to be a Letter of the Living in the first place. Or, if Jesus knew that Judas would betray Him, why did He allow Judas to be an Apostle? None of the Letters of the Living actually betrayed the Bab or Baha'u'llah, and most, if not all were martyred before the Declaration of Baha'u'llah, so it would not be possible to deny Him. Any way, the point again is as a rhetorical device showing how crucial it is to recognize Him Whom God Shall Make Manifest, not a question of whether the Bab knew that some event would occur or not. The Manifestations of God know what will happen in the future, that's why they suffer so much.
 
Oct 2019
31
Vrindavan
now the question came to my mind, is that possible that the Manifestation of God doesn't know something? since He is the most complete and highest level of Manifestation of God on earth, should His knowledge not be perfectly complete?
As far as I know, a Manifestation is the First Will of God, the Word of God. Can the will of God have incomplete knowledge?

For example, the first question for me would be whether the message of the Manifestation of God's original knowledge contains or at least is in harmony with it.
For this I need an originally revealed knowledge for comparison. If a Manifestation does not teach anything that corresponds to the original knowledge, then it would be questionable to me whether it is a Manifestation of God.
 
Jul 2018
101
Tarshish, bound for Nineveh
Allaho Abha

I am studying a tablet by Bahaullah recently; Lowhe Seraj (I do not know if there is any translations of it in English)
one of part of the Tablet, Bahaullah says, the Bab has said that IF He knew that a Jew at His time, would believe in Whom God Shall Make manifest, He (The Bab) would undoubtedly give him a high station. and IF He knew one of His letters of the Living would later on become disobedient to Whom God Shall Make Manifest, He would not have called that person a letter of the living.

now the question came to my mind, is that possible that the Manifestation of God doesn't know something? since He is the most complete and highest level of Manifestation of God on earth, should His knowledge not be perfectly complete?

Maryamr,

You are reading it too literally. This is one of the conditional structures in English and here it is being used to compare and contrast two hypothetical conditions. The message being conveyed is that to the Bab, belief and obedience to He Whom God Shall Make Manifest has higher value than any other status, including belief in Himself. It is not the Bab saying "if I could only know this or that."

Cheers
 
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Aug 2014
1,397
Blue Planet
Maryamr,

You are reading it too literally. This is one of the conditional structures in English and here it is being used to compare and contrast two hypothetical conditions. The message being conveyed is that to the Bab, belief and obedience to He Whom God Shall Make Manifest has higher value than any other status, including belief in Himself. It is not the Bab saying "if I could only know this or that."

Cheers
oh! that is one excellent answer. thank you Luqman