How exactly is me being a homosexual an inherently negative thing?

Nov 2012
7
Augusta
I am a homosexual. I'm romantically, emotionally and physicially attracted to members of my gender. I'm also currently in a long term, monognomous relationship. He is the only person I've ever slept with; meaning I have never been promiscuous. I have never done drugs and I only drink socially ( and even then I'm considering quitting that). I'm also on a very extensive spiritual and philosophical journey that has helped shape me into a better person.

And yet, according to Baha'i, I'm lost. Struggling with a curable condition. My question is, given what I've described, why would it matter that I'm gay? Would my life simply be between me and the community? And to an extent God?
 
Nov 2012
72
Far North Queensland Australia
It does not matter that you are gay. People were obviously prejudice In 19th century Iran, where this religion came from, and these folks are just following those teachings like sheep.
 
Nov 2012
601
United States
I think this is, at once, simpler and more complicated than it's made out to be. I also think, you're trying to argue against some strawmen here.

This is my take.
I see a distinction between having a predisposition to homosexual desires or attractions, and "being gay," as it were.

The former is a not-yet understood condition, which might or might not involve conditions of birth, as well as environmental or influential factors.

On a side note, this is where it might get a little complicated, because I think it can vary. I think some people are born with a strong predisposition toward homosexual attractions. I think others develop homosexual desires primarily because of other factors -- such as sexual abuse, or perhaps the influence of others.

Now, the latter, "being gay," is, IMO the state of embracing, or following through on or going with homosexual desires and attractions. Again, this can be complex. For some, at least from their subjective perspective, this can seem like the most "natural" thing for them to do. Others, might be pushed that way by outside influence.

I also think homosexuality represents a dysfunction by way of a fundamental disconnect. In other words, I think its axiomatic that, while procreation isn't the only reason to have sex (there are many, many reasons to have sex) -- procreation is the reason we have a sex drive to begin with.

Or, to put it another way, I don't see a reasonable way to explain away the dysfunctional aspect of finding one's own sex attractive, when one is a member of a two-sex species, that reproduces sexually.

As a Baha'i, I would not say you are "lost". From my point of view, you are beset with a condition -- perhaps caused by a myriad of factors, biological or otherwise -- that sends your sexual-romantic attractions in a non-sensical direction.

Now, what your sexuality means from your point of view, I think, is up to you, and between you and God.

On a personal level, it is none of my business. And I can honestly say, I don't care that you are gay. I have known many openly gay people, I don't feel uncomfortable around them, and can't imagine why anybody would.

Sure, you are "struggling." But aren't we all? Most of the struggle any of us face in this plane of our existence springs from the fact that we are at this time, wrapped in biological, fleshy bodies.

If you wish to become Baha'i, then you must bear in mind, the parameters of our religion state sex should take place only in marriage, and marriage is between a man and a woman.

If you find that intractable, and think that the only and best way for you to live it to embrace and follow your homosexual attractions, rather than struggle against them -- then perhaps the Baha'i Faith is not for you.
 
Last edited:
Jun 2006
4,322
California
I am a homosexual. I'm romantically, emotionally and physicially attracted to members of my gender. I'm also currently in a long term, monognomous relationship. He is the only person I've ever slept with; meaning I have never been promiscuous. I have never done drugs and I only drink socially ( and even then I'm considering quitting that). I'm also on a very extensive spiritual and philosophical journey that has helped shape me into a better person.

And yet, according to Baha'i, I'm lost. Struggling with a curable condition. My question is, given what I've described, why would it matter that I'm gay? Would my life simply be between me and the community? And to an extent God?
I was very happy to read that you are on a

"...very extensive spiritual and philosophical journey that has helped shape me into a better person."

that is I think commendable and I would hope it continues for you.

From the Baha'is I've met over the years I haven't found many who indicate they feel "lost". People are all unique and have issues.. We usually deal with some of these issues when someone approaches a Spiritual Assembly and presents an issue... so it's more or less a case by case situation and the dialogue between the individual and the Assembly is in strict confidence.

I have a question for you:

Since you indicate you're a Buddhist I 'm curious to know how "being attracted to members of my own gender" relates to Buddhism?

You're aware of course of some of the codes of Buddhist monastic orders...
 
Last edited:
Aug 2012
295
USA
arthra said:
You're aware of course of some of the codes of Buddhist monastic orders...
A good point, I know quite a few Bhuddists and this seems to be the case. Even the present Dalai Lama feels that homosexuality violets the precepts.

Obviously thanks to the Wahhabi movement Islam and homosexuality don't enjoy a very peaceful dialogue. However many people are ignorant of homosexuality in Islams past. The amount of homosexual literature (especially in the golden age of Islam) is overwhelming. Even more numerous than the heterosexual literature of the age. I mean really REALLY gay. (And i'm not saying it was a bad thing either)

And no one had a huge problem with it. Scholars and political leaders where openly gay and no one seemed to mind, considering the Qur'an doesn't mention the word homosexual.

Until Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab got pissed off one day and decided to change all of that.

I quote another Muslim scholar and await your reply, I could go on for hours xD

"Records show that sexual diversity existed in Islamic civilizations from the earliest times. In fact, for a long time Christians in Europe used this against Muslims, calling them "permissive" (meaning "too liberal") and "sodomitical" (meaning "homosexual"). This was one of the reasons Christians were determined to reconquer Spain when it was under Muslim rule. If anything, what Europeans introduced into Islamic cultures was homophobia (fear or hatred of homosexuality) and the belief that there is something "unnatural" about being gay, lesbian or bisexual."
 
Dec 2011
415
BayTown TX
You lost all Baha'is at "I'm a homosexual". For some reason Baha'is are very much focused on gays and how handicapped they are. Just google Baha'i writing on homosexuality. The Baha'i prophet suggest gay people seek medical help for their disease.
 
Nov 2012
7
Augusta
Since you indicate you're a Buddhist I 'm curious to know how "being attracted to members of my own gender" relates to Buddhism?

You're aware of course of some of the codes of Buddhist monastic orders...
That's the key word: monastic. For monks, homosexuality is forbidden. But then again, so is heterosexuality. If you are a monk, you're focused on teaching, meditation and reaching enlightenment. That is what you've dedicated your life to. As far as any sex goes, it is forbidden.

As for laypeople, such as myself, the Buddha taught against sexual MISCONDUCT; which includes rape, assault and promiscuity. This goes for both hetero and homosexual individuals. It doesn't forbid it, but urges it's followers to find a middle path.


A good point, I know quite a few Bhuddists and this seems to be the case. Even the present Dalai Lama feels that homosexuality violets the precepts.
Again, if the homosexuality in question is used in a negative way (rape, assault, etc.) then yes it violates the precepts. But again, that view also goes for heterosexual practitioners as well.
 
Last edited:
Nov 2012
243
Germany
Shogghi Effendi on homosexuality :

"...through the advice and help of doctors, through a strong and determined effort, and through prayer, a soul can overcome this handicap".

"No matter how devoted and fine the love may be between people of the same sex, to let it find expression in sexual acts is wrong".

And all after all this, the National Spiritual Assembly says : "...the sexual impulse is a God give one".


On this account, it seems there are some remains from the good old god of the Old Testament. :)
 
Nov 2012
7
Augusta
I quote another Muslim scholar and await your reply, I could go on for hours xD

"Records show that sexual diversity existed in Islamic civilizations from the earliest times. In fact, for a long time Christians in Europe used this against Muslims, calling them "permissive" (meaning "too liberal") and "sodomitical" (meaning "homosexual"). This was one of the reasons Christians were determined to reconquer Spain when it was under Muslim rule. If anything, what Europeans introduced into Islamic cultures was homophobia (fear or hatred of homosexuality) and the belief that there is something "unnatural" about being gay, lesbian or bisexual."
I actually somewhat knew of Islam's fairly liberal past; quite an interesting quote. In fact, allegedly, when the Lawrence of Arabia went to Arabia, he was amazed of how tolerant Islam was to homosexuality.

Another parallel similar to this is Russia. In the medieval times, Russia was actually relatively tolerant of homosexuality. Not so much now after the collapse of the Soviet Union and re-emergence of Orthodox Christianity.
 
Nov 2012
72
Far North Queensland Australia
The problem with you being gay is that you are living against the teachings of the master nad you have guaranteed yourself a very unpleasant after life.