I don’t know what to do.

Jun 2014
1,021
Wisconsin
#21
It may be different for those that intend eventually to marry each other and have a sexual attraction for each other. The examples the UHJ gives is not that.
It is not.

The UHJ gives the clear standard for when living together crosses the line: "what Baha'is would consider immoral is people who are not married living together as husband and wife, and indulging in sexual relations."

Anything that does not cross that line, clearly and plainly established by the Universal House of Justice, permitted, full stop.

Just because a situation does not perfectly match the handful of examples the UHJ gives of permitted living arrangements doesn't mean it isn't permitted.

The UHJ is clear on what, precisely and exactly, is the thing that makes a living situation improper. To draw the line anywhere else when such clear guidance has been given by our holy institutions seems presumptuous to me.

It is a simple standard, unquestionably clear, and sound advice: "what Baha'is would consider immoral is people who are not married living together as husband and wife, and indulging in sexual relations."
 
Feb 2018
37
Arizona-but earth is one homeland ;)
#22
@Walrus although you make a sound argument, I would not go so far as to say that 2 people that have some physical attraction toward each should not be somewhat discouraged from abiding in the same house so they might not be tempted.

To me it is -less- an issue if the plan is to marry because some have physical attraction to each with no interest in marriage... If one wants marriage and the other doesn't, that can be toughest of all.

But ... People have to be allowed to make their own decisions, even if it is sometimes a mistake.

To be clear - in Ally's case I'm not worried.
 
Sep 2010
4,388
Normanton Far North Queensland
#23
@Walrus although you make a sound argument, I would not go so far as to say that 2 people that have some physical attraction toward each should not be somewhat discouraged from abiding in the same house so they might not be tempted.

To me it is -less- an issue if the plan is to marry because some have physical attraction to each with no interest in marriage... If one wants marriage and the other doesn't, that can be toughest of all.

But ... People have to be allowed to make their own decisions, even if it is sometimes a mistake.

To be clear - in Ally's case I'm not worried.
I think this is where we need to use consultation and our administrative system, build the New World Order by using it.

Other wise you get a page of differing opinions that can give no firm answer.

Regards Tony
 
Jul 2017
238
Kettering, Ohio USA
#25
It is not.

The UHJ gives the clear standard for when living together crosses the line: "what Baha'is would consider immoral is people who are not married living together as husband and wife, and indulging in sexual relations."

Anything that does not cross that line, clearly and plainly established by the Universal House of Justice, permitted, full stop.

Just because a situation does not perfectly match the handful of examples the UHJ gives of permitted living arrangements doesn't mean it isn't permitted.

The UHJ is clear on what, precisely and exactly, is the thing that makes a living situation improper. To draw the line anywhere else when such clear guidance has been given by our holy institutions seems presumptuous to me.

It is a simple standard, unquestionably clear, and sound advice: "what Baha'is would consider immoral is people who are not married living together as husband and wife, and indulging in sexual relations."
It doesn't matter what we think. They must go their LSA and have it passed up the NSA or the UHJ and then it will be decided.
 
Jul 2017
310
Olympia, WA, USA
#26
Ich.

It really kinda disgusts me that so many people, even Baha'is on this forum, are of the cultural mindset that automatically assumes living together means sex before marriage. :(

Anyways, according to the UHJ itself, you are in the clear Allyb!!:

"With respect to Baha'is living in the same residence with a person of the opposite sex, such an arrangement would by no means be automatically considered unacceptable. It is not uncommon, for example, for a person to let out bed-sitting rooms in his or her house to students, vacationers, or others. Similarly, a man or woman may employ a housekeeper or servant of the other sex. What is considered proper in such arrangements varies from country to country. The laws and principles of our Faith, on the other hand, are meant to apply across all cultures, and what Baha'is would consider immoral is people who are not married living together as husband and wife, and indulging in sexual relations."

In full: Living together is 100% fine/permitted/halal in the Baha'i Faith so long as you are not living together "as husband and wife", IE, "indulging in sexual relations."

But living in the same building, is not inherently sexual, nor should any sane human being assume it is so. :p And I do find it greatly disturbing the amount of people who seem sexualize housing. :I It's gross, guys. Cut it out.

All the links people have posted to sex before marriage are completely inappropriate towards the topic at hand. :I Cohabitation itself is not banned, marital relations before marriage is what is banned. There is no reason to assume by Allyb's posts that she is sexually active in any way, and such speculation is inappropriate.

Allyb, you're in the clear. The UHJ states it is permitted. Don't fret. And if anyone further spreads the misinformation that your living arrangement is forbidden, point them to the wisdom and guidance offered by the UHJ, which explicitly states the opposite.

Yeah... more about the theme of people sexualizing things that shouldn't be sexualized. There's a reason that Baha'u'llah told us to make our eyes chaste. :p In an age when people view the act of living under the same roof as inherently sexual, we are in some dire need of viewing the world with more chaste eyes.
I have to admit, I have never heard of such a thing. I have always been told that a man and a woman cannot live together unless they are legally married.

I am not disputing what you said, but what kind of an impression are the Baha'is making if couples live together out of wedlock? Letting out a room to a boarder is not the same thing as sharing an apartment. :) I do not think that Baha'u'llah would be impressed. :eek:

Okay then, is it okay for homosexuals to live together as long as they do not have sexual relations? Who the heck is going to believe that they are not having sexual relations, whether they are heterosexuals or homosexuals? Moreover, how many couples in love are going to actually refrain from sex or even kissing (as it says we are to do in the Writings) for a number of years? :D