Jesus resurrection

Mar 2013
522
_
Calling the bible useless is going too far, and is very disrespectful. Can we not have respectful dialogue here?
 
Nov 2012
949
Florida
Calling the bible useless is going too far, and is very disrespectful. Can we not have respectful dialogue here?
Here, here!

"We have also heard a number of the foolish of the earth assert that the genuine text of the heavenly Gospel doth not exist amongst the Christians, that it hath ascended unto heaven. How grievously they have erred! How oblivious of the fact that such a statement imputeth the gravest injustice and tyranny to a gracious and loving Providence!"

"How could God, when once the Day-star of the beauty of Jesus had disappeared from the sight of His people, and ascended unto the fourth heaven, cause His holy Book, His most great testimony amongst His creatures, to disappear also? What would be left to that people to cling to from the setting of the day-star of Jesus until the rise of the sun of the Muḥammadan Dispensation? What law could be their stay and guide? How could such people be made the victims of the avenging wrath of God, the omnipotent Avenger? How could they be afflicted with the scourge of chastisement by the heavenly King? Above all, how could the flow of the grace of the All-Bountiful be stayed? How could the ocean of His tender mercies be stilled? We take refuge with God, from that which His creatures have fancied about Him! Exalted is He above their comprehension!" -Baha'u'llah, Kitab-i-Iqan, pp 89-90


Before ‘Abdu’l-Bahá left the Church, the City Temple in London, England, he wrote in the old Bible used by generations of preachers, the following words in his own native Persian, the translation being added as follows:

"This book is the Holy Book of God, of celestial Inspiration. It is the Bible of Salvation, the Noble Gospel. It is the mystery of the Kingdom and its light. It is the Divine Bounty, the sign of the guidance of God."
(signed) Abdu’l-Bahá Abbás.
 
Jul 2011
1,747
n ireland
For me, the gospels cannot be taken as historical fact because they were written many many years after the death of Jesus/yeshua/isa. In fact the epistles of Paul are the earliest New Testament writings. While still of value, the New Testament is of lesser value than the Quran which was written contemporaneously by one author and the Quran is of lesser importance than Baha'i scripture which delivers The Word for today's world
 
May 2013
1,786
forest falls california
In the Heart of the Gospel

Here, here!

"We have also heard a number of the foolish of the earth assert that the genuine text of the heavenly Gospel doth not exist amongst the Christians, that it hath ascended unto heaven. How grievously they have erred! How oblivious of the fact that such a statement imputeth the gravest injustice and tyranny to a gracious and loving Providence!"

"This book is the Holy Book of God, of celestial Inspiration. It is the Bible of Salvation, the Noble Gospel. It is the mystery of the Kingdom and its light. It is the Divine Bounty, the sign of the guidance of God."
(signed) Abdu’l-Bahá Abbás.

. The "Gospel" is there, in the Bible, for all who seek it.

. The "Cherubim" are the protectors, not necessarily in a literal material sense, but standing for those forces which protect the vainglorious and hard-hearted from entering the sacred Presence of understanding. "And Allah, verily, is the best of Plotters"

. So some of these webs which are spun to test and sift us until our hearts are prepared occur in the presentation of the Gospels, or in the Bible itself, when it is expressed in literal terms and stories, that those who seek temporal power may find it, and those who seek entrance into the Kingdom may do so by looking past these veils.

.
 
Dec 2014
357
United States
But what should also be noted is that this "Bible" may not even be the word of Allah, it is tampered with constantly!
According to who? Please provide real evidence that the Bible is tampered with constantly; who, when, where and how? Please provide the texts that differ from the earliest extant copies available? If you would bother to really research this topic you would find that the Bible is the most reliable ancient text that the world possesses; more reliable than the writings of Homer and Aristotle and Socrates. What you have said is blatantly false and is based upon nothing more than idle speculation.


The resurrection of Yeshua was symbolic and was to show how Allah is always with Allah's people. There were many visions of the apostles. That may or be not be their words. The Bible is useless today because we don't know its true words. Only things like the Qur'an, Báb and Bahá'u'lláh's words are worth arguing.
Again, this is a completely false statement. Jesus appeared to 12 groups of people after his resurrection, one of them containing over 500 people. This wasn't a vision of the Apostles. It was the risen Lord who could at once consume food, be physically touched, walk through locked doors and disappear in an instant. You have been misled.

36While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 37They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” 40When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43and he took it and ate it in their presence.(Luke 24:36-42)
 
Last edited:
Apr 2011
1,103
Hyrule
According to who? Please provide evidence that the Bible is tampered with constantly? In reality it is the most reliable ancient text that the world possesses. What you have said is blatantly false.
Hi Sojourner,

Legends developed.

Tacitus, living in Jesus' century, has this to say:

"That everything gets exaggerated is typical for any story . . "

". . .the greatest events are obscure--while some people accept whatever they hear as beyond doubt, others twist the truth into its opposite, and both errors grow over subsequent generations."​

There was no mass education, media, internet, or telephones. Scholars estimate twenty percent of the population could read, and, of those twenty percent, only ten percent could read well. The poor didn't have access to libraries, but the rich did. There are many examples of the educated elite lamenting the superstitions of the masses. For example, check out their reactions to eclipses. In other words, it was a breeding ground for legends to develop.

Josephus provides an example in the Jewish War. He recalls a legend that developed ten years earlier. At three in the morning he says it was like midday for thirty minutes around the Altar and Sanctuary of the Jerusalem Temple. A cow gave birth to a lamb in the middle of the Temple courts. Armies were seen marching through the skies. Then he writes:

"I would have dismissed it as an invention, had it not been vouched for by eyewitnesses, and followed by disasters that bore out the signs."​

That many people, under such conditions, believed in the physical resurrection of Jesus is not surprising.

36While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 37They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” 40When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43and he took it and ate it in their presence.(Luke 24:36-42)
This contradicts the earlier writings of Paul (1 Corinthians 15; 6.13).
 
Last edited:
Jun 2014
1,122
Wisconsin
Apr 2011
1,103
Hyrule
According to who? Please provide real evidence that the Bible is tampered with constantly; who, when, where and how? Please provide the texts that differ from the earliest extant copies available? If you would bother to really research this topic you would find that the Bible is the most reliable ancient text that the world possesses; more reliable than the writings of Homer and Aristotle and Socrates. What you have said is blatantly false and is based upon nothing more than idle speculation.
Was the Bible constantly tampered with? I don't know. But I do know there was some tampering going on. As I've noted before in another thread, we know for a fact that in 1 Corinthians 14 there is an interpolation:

External Evidence for 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 as an Interpolation
•Transcriptional Probability Argues That 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Is an Interpolation
•Codex Vaticanus’s Distigme at the End of 14:33 Points to Interpolation
•Codex Fuldensis’s Text Corrected by Bishop Victor Omits 1 Corinthians 14:34-35
•The Most Reasonable Explanation of MS 88’s Treatment of 14:34-35 Is That MS 88 Was Copied from a Manuscript That Omitted These Verses
•Clement of Alexandria Reflects a Text of 1 Corinthians without 14:34-35
•The Apostolic Fathers Give No Sign of Awareness of 1 Corinthians 14:34-35
•There Is a High Incidence of Textual Variants in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Internal Evidence
•Verses 34-35 Contradict Paul’s Encouraging Women to Speak in Church
•Verses 34-35 Interrupt the Flow of Paul’s Argument
•Verses 34-35 Make Alien Use of Vocabulary from the Chapter
•Verses 34-35 Conflict with the Goal of Instruction in Church
•The Use of “just as the Law says” Does Not Fit Paul’s Theology or His Style of Expression
•Contrary to Paul Championing the Downtrodden, Verses 34-35 Subordinate a Weak Social Group
•The Vocabulary of Verses 34-35 Appear to Mimic that of 1 Timothy 2:11-15
•The Command in Verse 34 Addresses Women “in the churches”
•The Content of Verses 34-35 Fits an Obvious Motive for Interpolation

There are a few other examples in Pauline texts too, but not many. As others have pointed out, this shows Christians had no problem making Paul say what they wanted him to say. Maybe there are many more interpolations we don't see?
 
Jun 2014
1,122
Wisconsin
According to who? Please provide real evidence that the Bible is tampered with constantly; who, when, where and how? Please provide the texts that differ from the earliest extant copies available? If you would bother to really research this topic you would find that the Bible is the most reliable ancient text that the world possesses; more reliable than the writings of Homer and Aristotle and Socrates. What you have said is blatantly false and is based upon nothing more than idle speculation.
Added to the Bible:
Is 'Let Him Who Is Without Sin Cast the First Stone' Biblical? | Christianity Today
Should Mark 16:9-20 be in the Bible?
https://jamesbradfordpate.wordpress.com/2013/07/09/bart-ehrman-on-luke-322/
The Case of the Missing Verse – John 5:4 | Kingdom Living

Added, then Removed from the Bible:
Deuterocanonical books - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia