Justice of God - Question

Sep 2017
346
Earth
#11
I am afraid you are mixing up two different issues. Issue # 1 is the injustice against and suffering of seemingly innocent people and Issue # 2 is helping them. I was explaining the reasons for Issue # 1. I am all for helping those that are suffering. If we have good karma we should help those with bad karma. That's what philanthropists do for example which is wonderful and is consistent with the teachings of all religions.

Since Bahaullah encouraged Bahai to study the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, I would humbly point you to Matthew 26:50-54 to understand the law of karma that Jesus refers to twice

Jesus replied, "Do what you came for, friend." Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him.

With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword".

Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?

But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"

Look at the highlighted text. In verse 52 he is very clear about karma influencing events in a person's life. In verse 53 and 54, he is saying that he can use the help of God's angels to fight off his persecutors if he so wanted, but unless he dies on the cross the scriptures will not be fulfilled - that is the law of karma mentioned in the scriptures will be proven wrong if he escapes crucifixion after having taken upon himself the karma (sins) of others and so as prophet of God, he willingly obeyed the law of karma and allowed himself to be crucified.

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap - Galatians 6:7

You must understand the nature of all three actions—recommended action, wrong action, and inaction. The truth about these is profound and difficult to understand - Bhagavad Gita 4:17

“Now a person is like this or like that. As it does, so it becomes; by doing good it becomes good, and by doing evil it becomes evil, it becomes pure by pure acts and bad by bad acts. And others, however, say that a person consists of desires. And as is his desire, so is his will; and as is his will, so is his deed; and whatever deed he does, that he will reap.” – Brihadaranyaka Upanishad – 4.4.5
Well to my understanding the Bahá'í writings do not support the idea of reincarnation which is involved with the law of karma. So if a baby is tortured and murdered, this is the baby's karma, in other words deserved it? Therefore the mother is also not to blame as she is just fulfilling her own karma, as well as the baby's? Seems as if it's a way to understand reality, but in practicality it does not add up, as no body is truly living a happy life and not suffering due to a past good karma.
 
Feb 2019
70
Chicago
#12
Well to my understanding the Bahá'í writings do not support the idea of reincarnation which is involved with the law of karma. So if a baby is tortured and murdered, this is the baby's karma, in other words deserved it? Therefore the mother is also not to blame as she is just fulfilling her own karma, as well as the baby's? Seems as if it's a way to understand reality, but in practicality it does not add up, as no body is truly living a happy life and not suffering due to a past good karma.
The solution for bad karma is not more bad karma. It is not easy to understand one's own karma, leave alone understand another person's karma. So while we may not understand the baby's karma, for the sake of discussion, if we assume the baby has bad karma it does not help the mother to accumulate bad karma for herself by torturing and murdering the baby. In the unlikely scenario of the mother understanding the bad karma of the baby, would it not make sense for her to help the baby overcome the bad karma. That is the way of righteousness not just for the mother but for any human being. We ought to help those suffering from bad karma but in some cases it may not be possible to help. For example, if someone commits suicide without raising any red flags, it is too late to help that person. Like individual karma, there is group karma which is why you sometimes see groups of people getting caught up in helpless situations and no one can possibly help them. How do you explain some people getting suddenly killed in a massive tsunami while most people die a natural death.

With regards to you comment that no one is living a happy life due to past good karma, there is some truth in it. Good karma does not guarantee happy life. What guarantees happy life is to act without accumulating karma and that is possible when we work for God and carry out God's will for us in our life instead of pursuing selfish and egotistic desires and goals. Any karma, good or bad binds the soul to the body. As long as the soul is bound or imprisoned in the body, it is not going to be truly happy because the soul seeks freedom in the joy of God. Such a joy is possible when the soul can know (realize through personal experience) God. It is possible to know God which is why Bahaullah said it is the purpose of human life. Look at the short obligatory prayer of the Bahai. In the very first line, Bahaullah says "God, Thou has created me to know Thee.......". And Abdul Baha says you can contact God through meditation.
 
Sep 2017
346
Earth
#13
The solution for bad karma is not more bad karma. It is not easy to understand one's own karma, leave alone understand another person's karma. So while we may not understand the baby's karma, for the sake of discussion, if we assume the baby has bad karma it does not help the mother to accumulate bad karma for herself by torturing and murdering the baby. In the unlikely scenario of the mother understanding the bad karma of the baby, would it not make sense for her to help the baby overcome the bad karma. That is the way of righteousness not just for the mother but for any human being. We ought to help those suffering from bad karma but in some cases it may not be possible to help. For example, if someone commits suicide without raising any red flags, it is too late to help that person. Like individual karma, there is group karma which is why you sometimes see groups of people getting caught up in helpless situations and no one can possibly help them. How do you explain some people getting suddenly killed in a massive tsunami while most people die a natural death.

With regards to you comment that no one is living a happy life due to past good karma, there is some truth in it. Good karma does not guarantee happy life. What guarantees happy life is to act without accumulating karma and that is possible when we work for God and carry out God's will for us in our life instead of pursuing selfish and egotistic desires and goals. Any karma, good or bad binds the soul to the body. As long as the soul is bound or imprisoned in the body, it is not going to be truly happy because the soul seeks freedom in the joy of God. Such a joy is possible when the soul can know (realize through personal experience) God. It is possible to know God which is why Bahaullah said it is the purpose of human life. Look at the short obligatory prayer of the
Bahai. In the very first line, Bahaullah says "God, Thou has created me to know Thee.......". And Abdul Baha says you can contact God through meditation.
Out of interest do you believe in reincarnation?
 
Feb 2019
70
Chicago
#14
Out of interest do you believe in reincarnation?
I am not a big fan of belief systems. When we say we believe in something, we are essentially saying that we know it as a fact and with such an attitude we never learn. It is only when we start with the awareness that we do not know, we are able to learn. The search for truth always begins with "I do not know".....so let me investigate and find the truth. Even Bahaullah encouraged people to independently investigate the truth. Belief systems inevitably lead to conflicts because one belief may contradict another belief. A Christian might believe God is the Father while a Hindu might believe that God is the Mother. How do we resolve such contradictions?

I think the cosmos would be fairly chaotic if God cannot operate unless people believe in His laws. What is important is for us to know and understand God's laws through observation and investigation instead of just believing in something. What I observe in God's creation is that every process that He created is cyclic. The motion of the Moon around the Earth, the motion of Earth around the Sun, water on earth evaporating to form clouds which return the water to the earth through rain, the circulation of blood in the body, the beating of the heart, the inhalation and exhalation process, man alternating between sleep and wakeful states are all cyclic. In fact, you can observe as long as you want, but you will never find a process that God created which is not cyclic. The fundamental unit of life is not the human body but the cell. One cell has all the information needed to clone a human being. Everyday, within the human body some cells die which are consumed by white blood cells and new cells are born. That is a cyclic process within the human body just as some new stars and planets are born everyday while other are mysteriously disappearing in the cosmos. The human body is like the microcosmic cosmos constantly reincarnating new cells. The proof of birth and death being a cyclic process is right within the human body in the birth and death of cells and this smaller cyclic process is contained with the larger cyclic process of the soul making a new body for itself when it's current body becomes too old or diseased. This is similar to the smaller cyclic process of the Moon's motion around the Earth being part of the larger cyclic process of Earth's motion around the Sun.
 
Jul 2017
341
Olympia, WA, USA
#15
Yet we see that when innocent women are raped and , the Heavenly Father silently seems to watch the show like a sadist. God is not a sadist. All the scriptures of the world declare that God is full of love, compassion, mercy and Justice.
But where is the ACTUAL evidence that God is all of that?
I am speaking on behalf of the atheists who cannot understand how believers believe things that contradict what we see in the world just because it is written in a book.
So why does an Omnipotent and All-Loving God sit back and allow evil in the world? This is logically inconsistent so I cannot make sense of it myself. :think:
 
Feb 2019
70
Chicago
#16
But where is the ACTUAL evidence that God is all of that?
I am speaking on behalf of the atheists who cannot understand how believers believe things that contradict what we see in the world just because it is written in a book.
So why does an Omnipotent and All-Loving God sit back and allow evil in the world? This is logically inconsistent so I cannot make sense of it myself. :think:
It is fine if you don't believe in God and the teachings of any religion. You have the advantage of a mind free of religious dogma and indoctrination. To know God you don't have to believe in anything. God and God's nature can be known in a scientific way if you are willing to put in the effort to accomplish those goals. Start with what you have without even thinking about God.

You definitely do not need proof that you exist because you are simply aware that you exist. Begin with yourself. Ask yourself who you are and what your true nature is. Try to find answers to these simple questions. Are you the ever changing body? Are you the mind that perceives nothing but change? Or are you something beyond that. When you are dreaming in sleep, you believe that the dream is real until you wake up from the dream. Who is observing it and recording it in your memory? Who or what is fooling you in to believing that the dream is real until you wake up from it. You normally exist in wakeful state, deep sleep state without dreams or sleep state with dreams. Is it possible there is a fourth state that you have not experienced in which the wakeful state may appear to be another dream. If you are being tricked in a dream to believe something to be real, it is possible such a thing could happen even when you are awake. If you observe the Sun during the day, it rises in the East and sets in the West. You get the impression that the Sun is going around the Earth but in reality, it is the Earth going around the Sun. This simple example proves that if you rely on your senses, you can be deceived. Senses are needed for your physical survival. They cannot guarantee that you can understand the reality. What is the similarity between a dream and wakeful state? In a dream, a series of pictures are played on your consciousness and you think it is real. It is similar to watching a movie. In wakeful state, the objects you see do not enter your being. The light falling on them gets reflected and enters your eyes, gets converted to electric signals which reach your brain where again pictures are played on the screen of your consciousness just like in a movie theater. Try to figure out who inside your body is watching this movie in dream state and wakeful state. If you sincerely try to do that you will realize that your mind is interfering with your investigative efforts. At that point you will want to still the mind to get to the reality of your existence and when you succeed in your efforts, you will find evidence of God and God's nature because you are made in the image of God. If you don't know how to still your mind, try the science of Raja Yoga that relies on Pranayama (control of life force). It will teach you how to treat your body as a laboratory to conduct scientific experiments to discover God within and then without.
 
Feb 2019
70
Chicago
#17
So why does an Omnipotent and All-Loving God sit back and allow evil in the world? This is logically inconsistent so I cannot make sense of it myself. :think:
God appears to be sitting back and allow evil in the world but that is not so in reality. God created the law of karma to oppose evil and restore balance. God's will and justice is expressed through the law of karma. Additionally, from time to time, when evil predominates the human societies, God incarnates in a human form to destroy evil and restore righteousness which explains the birth of avatars or manifestations of God like Krishna, Buddha, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed and Bahaullah.

Whenever virtue declines and vice predominates, I incarnate as an avatar. In visible form, I appear from age to age to destroy evil doing and re-establish righteousness - Bhagavad Gita 4:7-8
 
Jul 2017
341
Olympia, WA, USA
#18
God appears to be sitting back and allow evil in the world but that is not so in reality. God created the law of karma to oppose evil and restore balance. God's will and justice is expressed through the law of karma. Additionally, from time to time, when evil predominates the human societies, God incarnates in a human form to destroy evil and restore righteousness which explains the birth of avatars or manifestations of God like Krishna, Buddha, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed and Bahaullah.

Whenever virtue declines and vice predominates, I incarnate as an avatar. In visible form, I appear from age to age to destroy evil doing and re-establish righteousness - Bhagavad Gita 4:7-8
I do not know what you mean by "the law of karma."

According to Baha'u'llah, God cannot incarnate His Essence and reveal it to man:

“Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.” He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 49
 
Feb 2019
70
Chicago
#19
I do not know what you mean by "the law of karma."

According to Baha'u'llah, God cannot incarnate His Essence and reveal it to man:

“Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.” He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 49
When you sit on a chair, the chair exerts an equal and opposite force. Otherwise you will either sink in and collapse to the ground or get thrown in to the air depending on whether the force exerted by the chair is less or more than the force exerted by your body. That is the law karma manifesting on the physical plane which in the recent times have been labeled by the Europeans as Newton's third law of motion. Ages before Newton was born this law was known to the Hindus as the law of karma which also manifests on the mental and spiritual planes. If a child is exposed to violent movies and grows up in an environment where violence is glorified, chances are the child will grow up with violent mental tendencies (mental karma) and commit violent acts that harm others (physical karma). As a consequence (law of karma), he may get killed by another person in an act of self defense which helps restore the balance in the society between good and evil. This is a simplistic scenario because the results of a person's actions also depend on his past karma, not just on the actions in question.

I will have to meditate on Bahaullah's comments you have posted before I can comment on them. But generally speaking to say that God is Omnipotent and then suggest that He cannot do something like incarnating in human form is nothing but imposing a limit on God's powers and hence it is contradictory. In the mean time, I suggest you think about what Krishna and Jesus have said.

Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake - Jesus Christ
 

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