Justice of God - Question

Feb 2019
70
Chicago
#21
But where is the ACTUAL evidence that God is all of that?
I am speaking on behalf of the atheists who cannot understand how believers believe things that contradict what we see in the world just because it is written in a book.
Talking about books that atheists rely on, perhaps none of them will reveal to them that there is a soul inside the human body made in the image of God and an atheist usually does not believe in the existence of the soul either. Let me ask you a simple question. If a wave does not realize that it is made of water and questions if water exists and is under the delusion that it is separate from the ocean, how will it ever understand anything about the ocean and its nature. Such is the state of atheists. They refuse to believe in God because God cannot be perceived through the senses. However, the senses were designed to perceive something that changes in time and space where as the Unmanifested God (Spirit) is beyond time and space. So it is impossible to find God through the senses which is why the Bible and Yoga state that if you still your mind and know who you are, you will find evidence of God within yourself.

Be still, and know that I am God - Psalm 46:10 (In this verse the Bible refers to mental stillness, not physical stillness)

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? - Corinthians 3:16

I and the Father are one. Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him. But Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"

"We are not stoning you for any good work," they replied, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"'? - John 10:30-34


There is Manifested God (Nature) in the form of creation with all of God's laws and intelligence behind its functioning but that is usually dismissed as random phenomenon by atheists. If everything in creation is happening randomly, shouldn't the Earth follow random orbits around the Sun as time progresses and shouldn't one specie of animal give birth to another one.
 
Mar 2015
216
Bend area, Oregon
#22
Venu:

I have been attempting to keep abreast of the posts on this thread. Although I have not provided comment to date, I was moved to comment in response to your post #17 related to the quote you offered from the holy Text, “Whenever virtue declines and vice predominates, I incarnate as an avatar. In visible form, I appear from age to age to destroy evil doing and re-establish righteousness” (Bhagavad Gita 4:7-8) In this holy verse may we find points of unity of belief. The words in this brief verse actually contain volumes and do well in explaining that most wondrous and profound spiritual Phenomenon known in the Baha’is belief system as “Progressive Revelation.” The “Avatar” - that ancient, divine, and universal Reality, being the Primal Will, the Divine Intelligence, the Command (of God), does in truth, become manifest in the physical world over and again, and again, and again, in Age, after Age, after Age . . . . . perpetually.

I am reminded by that blessed verse in Bhagavad Gita, of some similar words from the Gospel, and from another time and culture as well, where it is explained: “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, . . .” (John1:14); “And behold, I am with you all the days, until the completion of the age." (Matthew 28:20); “. . . I am going away to prepare a place for you . . . I am coming again . . .” (John 14:2-3); “. . . It is for your benefit I am going away . For if I do not go away, the Comforter will by no means come to you; but if I do go away, I will send Him to you. And when that One arrives He will give the world convincing evidence concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment . . .” (John 16:7-8)

Explaining the spiritual truth of that “Divine Unity” relative to the luminous Avatars one to another, Siyyid 'Alí-Muhammad, the Báb - the Primal Point - has revealed, “And know thou that He indeed resembleth the sun. Were the risings of the sun to continue till the end that hath no end, yet there hath not been nor ever will be more than one sun; and were its settings to endure for evermore, still there hath not been nor ever will be more than one sun. It is this Primal Will which appeareth resplendent in every Prophet and speaketh forth in every revealed Book. It knoweth no beginning, inasmuch as the First deriveth its firstness from It; and knoweth no end, for the Last oweth its lastness unto It.” (Selections From the Writings of the Báb)

Reinforcing the words of the Báb, Bahá'u'lláh Himself reveals that “in the kingdoms of earth and heaven there must needs be manifested a Being, an Essence, Who shall act as a Manifestation and Vehicle for the transmission of the grace of the Divinity Itself, the Sovereign Lord of all. Through the Teachings of this Day Star of Truth every man will advance and develop until he attaineth the station at which he can manifest all the potential forces with which his inmost true self hath been endowed. It is for this very purpose that in every age and dispensation the Prophets of God and His chosen Ones have appeared amongst men. . . “ and further, “Since there can be no tie of direct intercourse to bind the one true God with His creation, and no resemblance whatever can exist between the transient and the Eternal, the contingent and the Absolute, He hath ordained that in every age and dispensation a pure and stainless Soul be made manifest in the kingdoms of earth and heaven. Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature, the physical, pertaining to the world of matter; and the spiritual which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself. . . . The second station is the human station. . . .” (Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, XXVII) “Therefore, whosoever, and in whatever Dispensation, hath recognized and attained unto the presence of these glorious, these resplendent and most excellent Luminaries, hath verily attained unto the ‘Presence of God’ Himself, and entered the city of eternal and immortal life. Attainment unto such presence is possible only in the Day of Resurrection, which is the Day of the rise of God Himself through His all-embracing Revelation.” (The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 143)

Speaking as the Center of Bahá'u'lláh’s Covenant, 'Abdu'l-Bahá expounded further upon the nature of this spiritual phenomenon explaining, “The first thing to emanate from God is that universal reality to which the ancient philosophers termed the ‘First Intellect’, and which the people of Bahá call the 'Primal Will’. This emanation, with respect to its action in the world of God, is not limited by either time or place; and has neither beginning nor end—for in relation to God the beginning and the end are one and the same. (Some Answered Questions, 2014 edition, p. 235) and further, “. . . the universal divine Intellect, which transcends nature, is the outpouring grace of the pre-existent Power. It encompasses all existing realities and receives its share of the lights and mysteries of God. It is an all-knowing power, not a power of investigation and sensing. The spiritual power associated with the world of nature is the power of investigation, and it is through investigation that it discovers the realities and properties of things. But the heavenly intellectual power, which is beyond nature, encompasses, knows, and comprehends all things; is aware of the divine mysteries, truths, and inner meanings; and discovers the hidden verities of the Kingdom. This divine intellectual power is confined to the holy Manifestations and the Daysprings of prophethood. A ray of this light falls upon the mirrors of the hearts of the righteous, that they may also receive, through the holy Manifestations, a share and benefit of this power.” (Some Answered Questions, 2014 edition, p. 251)

In Shoghi Effendi’s book, ‘God Passes By’, a history of the first century of the Baha’i Faith, he refers to the Manifestation of Bahá'u'lláh as an “Avatar” and as “Him (that) the Bhagavad-Gita of the Hindus had referred as the “Most Great Spirit, and as the “Immaculate Manifestation of Krishna.” In a “Statement” that Shoghi Effendi wrote to the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine in 1947, he explained: "The fundamental principle enunciated by Bahá'u'lláh, the followers of His Faith firmly believe, is that Religious truth is not absolute but relative, that Divine Revelation is a continuous and progressive process, that all the great religions of the world are divine in origin, that their basic principles are in complete harmony, that their aims and purposes are one and the same, that their teachings are but facets of one truth, that their functions are complementary, that they differ only in the non-essential aspects of their doctrines and that their missions represent successive stages in the spiritual evolution of human society." Referring specifically to the mission of Bahá'u'lláh, he explained that its purpose is “to inaugurate an era of righteousness and peace, an era that would be hailed as the consummation of all previous Dispensations, and initiate a new cycle in the religious history of mankind.” (Shoghi Effendi, Summary Statement, July 14, 1947, Special UN Committee on Palestine)

May we find unity of belief in the profound words that “Whenever virtue declines and vice predominates, I incarnate as an avatar. In visible form, I appear from age to age to destroy evil doing and re-establish righteousness” (Bhagavad Gita 4:7-8).

Please take care. -LR
 
Feb 2019
70
Chicago
#23
Venu:

I have been attempting to keep abreast of the posts on this thread. Although I have not provided comment to date, I was moved to comment in response to your post #17 related to the quote you offered from the holy Text, “Whenever virtue declines and vice predominates, I incarnate as an avatar. In visible form, I appear from age to age to destroy evil doing and re-establish righteousness” (Bhagavad Gita 4:7-8) In this holy verse may we find points of unity of belief. The words in this brief verse actually contain volumes and do well in explaining that most wondrous and profound spiritual Phenomenon known in the Baha’is belief system as “Progressive Revelation.” The “Avatar” - that ancient, divine, and universal Reality, being the Primal Will, the Divine Intelligence, the Command (of God), does in truth, become manifest in the physical world over and again, and again, and again, in Age, after Age, after Age . . . . . perpetually.

I am reminded by that blessed verse in Bhagavad Gita, of some similar words from the Gospel, and from another time and culture as well, where it is explained: “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, . . .” (John1:14); “And behold, I am with you all the days, until the completion of the age." (Matthew 28:20); “. . . I am going away to prepare a place for you . . . I am coming again . . .” (John 14:2-3); “. . . It is for your benefit I am going away . For if I do not go away, the Comforter will by no means come to you; but if I do go away, I will send Him to you. And when that One arrives He will give the world convincing evidence concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment . . .” (John 16:7-8)

Explaining the spiritual truth of that “Divine Unity” relative to the luminous Avatars one to another, Siyyid 'Alí-Muhammad, the Báb - the Primal Point - has revealed, “And know thou that He indeed resembleth the sun. Were the risings of the sun to continue till the end that hath no end, yet there hath not been nor ever will be more than one sun; and were its settings to endure for evermore, still there hath not been nor ever will be more than one sun. It is this Primal Will which appeareth resplendent in every Prophet and speaketh forth in every revealed Book. It knoweth no beginning, inasmuch as the First deriveth its firstness from It; and knoweth no end, for the Last oweth its lastness unto It.” (Selections From the Writings of the Báb)

Reinforcing the words of the Báb, Bahá'u'lláh Himself reveals that “in the kingdoms of earth and heaven there must needs be manifested a Being, an Essence, Who shall act as a Manifestation and Vehicle for the transmission of the grace of the Divinity Itself, the Sovereign Lord of all. Through the Teachings of this Day Star of Truth every man will advance and develop until he attaineth the station at which he can manifest all the potential forces with which his inmost true self hath been endowed. It is for this very purpose that in every age and dispensation the Prophets of God and His chosen Ones have appeared amongst men. . . “ and further, “Since there can be no tie of direct intercourse to bind the one true God with His creation, and no resemblance whatever can exist between the transient and the Eternal, the contingent and the Absolute, He hath ordained that in every age and dispensation a pure and stainless Soul be made manifest in the kingdoms of earth and heaven. Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature, the physical, pertaining to the world of matter; and the spiritual which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself. . . . The second station is the human station. . . .” (Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, XXVII) “Therefore, whosoever, and in whatever Dispensation, hath recognized and attained unto the presence of these glorious, these resplendent and most excellent Luminaries, hath verily attained unto the ‘Presence of God’ Himself, and entered the city of eternal and immortal life. Attainment unto such presence is possible only in the Day of Resurrection, which is the Day of the rise of God Himself through His all-embracing Revelation.” (The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 143)

Speaking as the Center of Bahá'u'lláh’s Covenant, 'Abdu'l-Bahá expounded further upon the nature of this spiritual phenomenon explaining, “The first thing to emanate from God is that universal reality to which the ancient philosophers termed the ‘First Intellect’, and which the people of Bahá call the 'Primal Will’. This emanation, with respect to its action in the world of God, is not limited by either time or place; and has neither beginning nor end—for in relation to God the beginning and the end are one and the same. (Some Answered Questions, 2014 edition, p. 235) and further, “. . . the universal divine Intellect, which transcends nature, is the outpouring grace of the pre-existent Power. It encompasses all existing realities and receives its share of the lights and mysteries of God. It is an all-knowing power, not a power of investigation and sensing. The spiritual power associated with the world of nature is the power of investigation, and it is through investigation that it discovers the realities and properties of things. But the heavenly intellectual power, which is beyond nature, encompasses, knows, and comprehends all things; is aware of the divine mysteries, truths, and inner meanings; and discovers the hidden verities of the Kingdom. This divine intellectual power is confined to the holy Manifestations and the Daysprings of prophethood. A ray of this light falls upon the mirrors of the hearts of the righteous, that they may also receive, through the holy Manifestations, a share and benefit of this power.” (Some Answered Questions, 2014 edition, p. 251)

In Shoghi Effendi’s book, ‘God Passes By’, a history of the first century of the Baha’i Faith, he refers to the Manifestation of Bahá'u'lláh as an “Avatar” and as “Him (that) the Bhagavad-Gita of the Hindus had referred as the “Most Great Spirit, and as the “Immaculate Manifestation of Krishna.” In a “Statement” that Shoghi Effendi wrote to the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine in 1947, he explained: "The fundamental principle enunciated by Bahá'u'lláh, the followers of His Faith firmly believe, is that Religious truth is not absolute but relative, that Divine Revelation is a continuous and progressive process, that all the great religions of the world are divine in origin, that their basic principles are in complete harmony, that their aims and purposes are one and the same, that their teachings are but facets of one truth, that their functions are complementary, that they differ only in the non-essential aspects of their doctrines and that their missions represent successive stages in the spiritual evolution of human society." Referring specifically to the mission of Bahá'u'lláh, he explained that its purpose is “to inaugurate an era of righteousness and peace, an era that would be hailed as the consummation of all previous Dispensations, and initiate a new cycle in the religious history of mankind.” (Shoghi Effendi, Summary Statement, July 14, 1947, Special UN Committee on Palestine)

May we find unity of belief in the profound words that “Whenever virtue declines and vice predominates, I incarnate as an avatar. In visible form, I appear from age to age to destroy evil doing and re-establish righteousness” (Bhagavad Gita 4:7-8).

Please take care. -LR
The verse I quoted from the Bhagavad Gita has both exoteric as well as esoteric meaning. In the exoteric sense, when evil predominates in the society and righteousness is declining, God can incarnate in human form as an avatar to destroy evil doing and restore righteousness. As part that role, the avatar may physically fight those promoting evil in addition to preaching spiritual truths. However in the esoteric sense, the avatar being one with God is also omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent which is why avatars like Jesus are able to perform miracles like raising people from the dead and appearing to St. Francis in flesh and blood several hundred years after their departure from this planet. The omnipresent avatar is able to help his devotees when they mediate upon him by manifesting his spiritual presence in their consciousness in deep states of meditation and destroying their unhealthy mental tendencies to help them evolve spiritually and grow closer to God through manifestation of spiritual qualities. This is destroying "evil" and reestablishing "righteouness" on the mental plane.
 

Similar threads