Krishna- Reincarnation - Bhagavad Gita

Sep 2017
372
Earth
The Bhagavad Gita is clear on reincarnation, and Bahá'u'lláh in the Iqan says the bible is not corrupted why would God allow his works to be corrupted. As a Bahá'í what Should be my view on the Bhagavad Gita I can't quite understand how to accept how clear it is on re incarnation

'Not here and not hereafter does he die, for men of good will meet no adverse fate though having failed to follow yogas path he reaches worlds where virtuous creatures dwell and after many years in that abode he finds another prosperous home amongst a noble family here on earth or even in a family of the wise though such a birth is rare indeed to win'
 
Nov 2015
145
Canada
The Bhagavad Gita is clear on reincarnation, and Bahá'u'lláh in the Iqan says the bible is not corrupted why would God allow his works to be corrupted. As a Bahá'í what Should be my view on the Bhagavad Gita I can't quite understand how to accept how clear it is on re incarnation

'Not here and not hereafter does he die, for men of good will meet no adverse fate though having failed to follow yogas path he reaches worlds where virtuous creatures dwell and after many years in that abode he finds another prosperous home amongst a noble family here on earth or even in a family of the wise though such a birth is rare indeed to win'
Baha'u'llah himself did not ever talk about reincarnation. Abdu'l-Baha wrote a treatise against reincarnation, however. So many Baha'i are against reincarnation since it was written by Abdu'l-Baha.

On the flip side of this, I personally have a very different belief on the matter, as a former Sikh. I think that reincarnation is very much valid, as Abdu'l-Baha is only infallible when interpreting the words of Baha'u'llah, and since Baha'u'llah did not speak on reincarnation, he is not infallible when it comes to this topic. The way I personally view it in a Baha'i way, is that reincarnation simply doesn't matter anymore because Baha'u'llah has nullified it in a way. In order to break the cycle of reincarnation, one must harmonize with God, and to do that, you must understand His message. It practically says in Gems of Divine Mysteries that if one understands Gems, they understand God's message. Thus, Gems (Though of course, one of many, many different ways) has nullified the reincarnation cycle. If one understands it, you will understand God's message, and thus not be reincarnated. My rationale that, even if it did exist, or even if it doesn't - it doesn't matter anymore.

I think that for the most part, most religious texts are true - it is just their interpretations that are corrupted. I've spent a long time interpreting the Srimad-Bhagavatam through a Baha'i lens, for example. I view it as true, but if something seems to conflict, it is likely just that the regular interpretation, or the way I personally am interpreting the text, is not correct, and so I try to interpret it other ways. I am sure the same concept could be applied to the Bhagavad Gita.

This is all just my take. Hope you are having an amazing time wherever you are :)
 
Sep 2010
4,589
Normanton, Far North West Queensland
Baha'u'llah himself did not ever talk about reincarnation. Abdu'l-Baha wrote a treatise against reincarnation, however. So many Baha'i are against reincarnation since it was written by Abdu'l-Baha.

On the flip side of this, I personally have a very different belief on the matter, as a former Sikh. I think that reincarnation is very much valid, as Abdu'l-Baha is only infallible when interpreting the words of Baha'u'llah, and since Baha'u'llah did not speak on reincarnation, he is not infallible when it comes to this topic. The way I personally view it in a Baha'i way, is that reincarnation simply doesn't matter anymore because Baha'u'llah has nullified it in a way. In order to break the cycle of reincarnation, one must harmonize with God, and to do that, you must understand His message. It practically says in Gems of Divine Mysteries that if one understands Gems, they understand God's message. Thus, Gems (Though of course, one of many, many different ways) has nullified the reincarnation cycle. If one understands it, you will understand God's message, and thus not be reincarnated. My rationale that, even if it did exist, or even if it doesn't - it doesn't matter anymore.

I think that for the most part, most religious texts are true - it is just their interpretations that are corrupted. I've spent a long time interpreting the Srimad-Bhagavatam through a Baha'i lens, for example. I view it as true, but if something seems to conflict, it is likely just that the regular interpretation, or the way I personally am interpreting the text, is not correct, and so I try to interpret it other ways. I am sure the same concept could be applied to the Bhagavad Gita.

This is all just my take. Hope you are having an amazing time wherever you are :)

I see the original teachings would have supported what Baha'u'llah and Abdul'baha has said.

I also see that a constant cycle in this life, of being born in certitude of Faith and death in neglect of that Faith could be the original intent.

On another forum this is a reply losted on that subject;


In this life we are Born and we die, this is the reality of this life, it results in death Thus looking at this life spiritually, all that is of this world is death. We take nothing of it to our grave but the body, which then returns to where it came from, the earth.

In this life we are offered a path to our Spiritual Discovery. To find out that Spirit is our true Life, this is rebirth.

Once found and knowledge is gained of what is required, that spiritual existence requires the maintaining of the vitals of that existence, by implementing that knowledge. If we do not, we die spiritually.

I can look back at the turning points in my Spiritual Journey and say that when the vitals were not maintained, I returned to this world of death. Each time it required a rebirth to the Spirit of Faith and a renewed effort to maintain the vitals of Faith.

I see this as why God says that no person can be exalted over another, as no one knows their end and when and how it will be. Will it be at a time when spiritual death is also practiced, or will it be at a time when rebirth has confirmed Faith. Thus we are told;

"...He should forgive the sinful, and never despise his low estate, for none knoweth what his own end shall be. How often hath a sinner attained, at the hour of death, to the essence of faith, and, quaffing the immortal draught, hath taken his flight unto the Concourse on high! And how often hath a devout believer, at the hour of his soul’s ascension, been so changed as to fall into the nethermost fire!"
(Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 265)

Regards Tony
 
Sep 2017
372
Earth
-

Thanks for the input guys, I'm going to answer my own question a little over here because somebody on another platform had said to me that previous manifestations may have taught reincarnation but that was because that's what we needed back then or that's what we were capable of comprehending .. He also said that the Bhagavad Gita may not be what Krishna taught so these points also make sense to me .. Alláh’u’Abhá
 
Jun 2009
473
earth
I have heard it argued that the use of "reincarnation" in former religions was a way of explaining the progress of the soul in a way people could understand and that how a life is lived in this world affects one's station in the next world.

What I do not understand is if the next life is the only next life or if there is some sort of progression. It seems we are not meant to fully understand the true nature of the next life but are given information on how to prepare it (getting to know God, living a good life etc).
 
Jun 2014
1,096
Wisconsin
One thing to keep in mind is that Krishna is a very old prophet. Krishna and Arjuna both seem to appear in a huge amount of European religions as well, which probably indicates that Krishna originates from the Proto-Indo-Europeans, the people who are the ancestors of the Europeans, Persians, and Indians.

Across many different European religions the story of two divine twins, one a herdsman and one a warrior, is told and it is believed by anthropologists that these stories have common origin which, if true, essentially means that in recognition of Krishna as a Manifestation of God, the Baha'i Faith also recognizes the divine origin of several European pagan religions.

Which would raise the question of: Which religion has a clearer view of ancient Krishna?? Do the Hindu texts about Krishna or the Latvian songs about the Dieva Dēli paint a more accurate picture of the Manifestation?? I don't think it is possible to know the answer, at this time.

But out of all the different Proto-Indo-European religions in which these divine twins appear, only the Indian versions of the story have a belief in reincarnation, which would imply either the Indians adopted the belief in reincarnation, or the Persians and Europeans dropped a belief in reincarnation, as the PIE peoples spread out across the world.
 
Nov 2019
45
Hamburg
The oldest Indian literature knew karma as action whose morality after death led to either heaven or hell. Karma as action in the context of rebirth is a very late model, probably the result of human thought and philosophical speculation. It is no surprise to me that the Baha'i religion reaffirms that reincarnation was not one of the original teachings. Jn 9:2 describes how the disciples of Jesus had apparently heard of the concept of reincarnation and therefore asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned? Himself? Or did his parents sin so that he was born blind?" Jesus then made it clear that suffering had nothing to do with the action in a previous life (cf. Jn 9:3) and once again clearly denied reincarnation. The Bhagavad-gita is part of the Mahabharata epic and was written only a few centuries before Christ. Krishna speaks of rebirth because at that time this faith had already spread in India. Neither Krishna nor rebirth belong to the original Vedic religion. There is also no evidence that this faith was present in the previous Indus culture. There is no doubt that the faith of the Hindus should be accepted, but it does not stand up to historical analysis. Therefore the followers of the abrahamic religions should not let themselves be chased into the fenugreek, since the Abrahamitic religions, unlike the Indian religions, have been subject to critical scientific analysis for quite some time.
 
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Feb 2019
220
Chicago
The oldest Indian literature knew karma as action whose morality after death led to either heaven or hell. Karma as action in the context of rebirth is a very late model, probably the result of human thought and philosophical speculation. It is no surprise to me that the Baha'i religion reaffirms that reincarnation was not one of the original teachings. Jn 9:2 describes how the disciples of Jesus had apparently heard of the concept of reincarnation and therefore asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned? Himself? Or did his parents sin so that he was born blind?" Jesus then made it clear that suffering had nothing to do with the action in a previous life (cf. Jn 9:3) and once again clearly denied reincarnation. The Bhagavad-gita is part of the Mahabharata epic and was written only a few centuries before Christ. Krishna speaks of rebirth because at that time this faith had already spread in India. Neither Krishna nor rebirth belong to the original Vedic religion. There is also no evidence that this faith was present in the previous Indus culture. There is no doubt that the faith of the Hindus should be accepted, but it does not stand up to historical analysis. Therefore the followers of the abrahamic religions should not let themselves be chased into the fenugreek, since the Abrahamitic religions, unlike the Indian religions, have been subject to critical scientific analysis for quite some time.
There are actually several inaccuracies in your comments about India and Hinduism. On other threads, I have presented verses from the Bible that support reincarnation. The second council of constantinople deleted many passages from the Bible relating to reincarnation. You say Abrahamic religions have been subject to critical scientific analysis for quite some time. The Abrahamic religions teach that all humans came from Adam and Eve. So which critical scientific analysis has been able to prove beyond doubt that the story of Adam and Eve is indeed true. Has science been able to prove that Eve was created from Adam's rib or that a snake that deceived her was actually able to talk. I wonder how many scientists of this world will buy the story of a talking snake. At least to support reincarnation, there is a lot of scientific evidence that every process in nature is cyclic including the birth and death of cells in the human body that are the fundamental unit of life.
 
Nov 2019
45
Hamburg
Oh, the Hindi apologist who wants to go against the scientific findings about his religion again. You know, I noticed after reading many articles what this is all about. In the beginning I was fooled into believing that this is about you believing the Baha'i and putting you at the disposal of the Baha'i present to answer questions about your faith. In fact, however, you do apologetics and mission and try to spread your faith truths in every thread.

On the topic:

The divinization of nature that came with the Abrahamic religions opened the way to scientific exploration of nature. Certainly the relationship between e.g. church and science was always somewhat strained, but if you look at e.g., as in the context of critical-historical exegesis as well as scientific research, with which one reflects faith contents in the critical scientific view, the church is miles ahead of what you present here, for example, by rejecting every scientific reflection on the actual age of your religion as colonialistic conspiracy. While Christianity has long since begun to regard the 6 Days of Creation as an image, you yourself deny the scientifically founded age of the Vedas and question the emergence of Scripture. Otherwise, you can check for yourself how many scientists were believing Christians (Catholics, etc.). Or take a look at the website of the Pontifical Academy of Science (Home page of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences).