Krishna- Reincarnation - Bhagavad Gita

Nov 2019
50
Hamburg
What you call science is pure nonsense born out of ignorance of your real nature which is completely spiritual and never physical.
That's what I meant about your relationship with science. Thank you for the proof.
 
Oct 2019
57
Vrindavan
Jesus then made it clear that suffering had nothing to do with the action in a previous life (cf. Jn 9:3) and once again clearly denied reincarnation. The Bhagavad-gita is part of the Mahabharata epic and was written only a few centuries before Christ. Krishna speaks of rebirth because at that time this faith had already spread in India. Neither Krishna nor rebirth belong to the original Vedic religion. There is also no evidence that this faith was present in the previous Indus culture. There is no doubt that the faith of the Hindus should be accepted, but it does not stand up to historical analysis. Therefore the followers of the abrahamic religions should not let themselves be chased into the fenugreek, since the Abrahamitic religions, unlike the Indian religions, have been subject to critical scientific analysis for quite some time.
A friend recently gave me a book by Schalom Ben-Chorin, a German-Israeli journalist and religious scholar. He holds the view that rebirth at the time of Jesus belonged to the general popular faith. Ben-Chorin is known for the most solid inventories in this field. Thus rebirth naturally does not become a Christian faith, because Christian faith is what has been canonized over the centuries by the Christian churches.

What you write about the Vedic religion is cultural-scientifically and historically correct. But it is more about concepts. Already in the Early Vedic period before the Upanishads a henotheism showed up and the people of the Indian subcontinent believed in a complete truth, which is expressed in many gods. Rebirth was most likely known to these people through their own meditation experiences with which they explored their minds. Remarkable are the exact descriptions of the universe. Most religions that are considered revelatory religions offer less information.

If you have the insight that there is an absolute truth that expands in various forms; and if, through your meditation, the insight that you are eternal as a soul, it can be concluded that this eternal soul is a part of the eternal truth, from which the Brahman-Atman complex results. It is the combination of tradition, personal experience, and logical conclusion that makes up the whole picture that Krishna once again summarized in the Bhagavad Gita.
 
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ams

Nov 2019
88
Thailand
Hi Siddhanta
Rebirth was most likely known to these people through their own meditation experiences with which they explored their minds.
Basically... Reincarnation therapists (<-- in Germany, they are called so ) they instruct their patients doing so as well .

Its also a kind of meditation.

They help their patients tuning in a meditative status of mind ... so that they can - with the guide of the therapist - go back.

Finding out the (karmic) reason in the previous life from what they are still suffering in this life.

After this they can then fix it.

The conventional psychology or even conventional medicine (in case of physical psychosomatic symtoms)
were sometimes not able be help... so some then goes to the Reincarnation therapists.

And they was then able to help them, fixing the problem.

All this is proven by concept in countless cases over decades in Germany.

There are many Books and Videos from many patients and therapists... reporting the success of it
and the private karmic story behind (<-- very valuable for understanding how life and karma works... ).

Of course: People only are going to a Reincarnation therapists if they are spiritual open for it ...
and if the conventional psychology / medicine just was not able to help.
 
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Oct 2019
57
Vrindavan
I'm not very familiar with these reincarnation therapies. The used vocabulary also alienates me a bit, because patient and therapist belong exclusively to the orthodox medical field.
 
Oct 2019
57
Vrindavan
I have another argument to make. Nowadays we often believe that an element of faith exists only since the time of its fixation in oral or written literature.

That is why many people, for example, believe that the contents of faith which the Catholic Church has formulated in dogmas were only created at the Councils. The Catholic Church points out, however, that dogmas embody contents which have been believed for centuries and only had to be fixed at the time when other theological and philosophical models were conceived or when people became insecure.

In the same sense one can therefore quite well assume that rebirth really only had to be fixed as a fixed doctrine at the time of the Upanishads, because this was the great time of philosophical interpretations and possibly other models could develop. Before it was probably the completely natural popular belief, which also speaks for the fact that everywhere in the world the belief in rebirth has developed sometimes more, sometimes less strongly.

Even if India is very free and flexible in its ways to the truth, the Vedas including the Upanishads are the yardstick by which all later literature has to orient itself. Therefore a fixation of reincarnation was necessary here.
 

ams

Nov 2019
88
Thailand
Hi Siddhanta
That is why many people, for example, believe that the contents of faith which the Catholic Church has formulated in dogmas were only created at the Councils. The Catholic Church points out, however, that dogmas embody contents which have been believed for centuries and only had to be fixed at the time when other theological and philosophical models were conceived or when people became insecure.
In my personal opinion and investigations...

The teaching of reincarnation were always a part in the tradition of the prophetic revelations in Judaism.
If you ask an orthodox jew about reincarnation, he will say:

"Yes, reincarnation is a part of the traditional Judaism from the very begining "...

And he will show you then references to reincarnation in i.e. the Old Testament... and of course in more detail also in the Kabbalah.

Therfore, todays very most orthodox jews still believes in reincarnation.


Jesus Christ also was teaching Reincarnation.

He was familar with Reincarnation. Also his disciples.

That why there are still records of reincarnation not only in the Old- but also in the New Testament.

Centuries later... the formed roman catholic church did strictly Ban and condemned...
the christian teaching of the "preexistence of the soul" before birth... in the 6th century.

Details: Of the Ban: Synod of Constantinople (543) - Wikipedia


Since then... the christian teaching of reincarnation were forbidden... and lost... in Christianity. Until today.
 
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Oct 2019
57
Vrindavan
For me it is not a question of truth and with what justification should one present what many generations believed as untrue? I just wanted to show that the question of why the contents of faith were only later recorded or canonized or recorded orally or in writing does not necessarily say something about them being new.
 

Jcc

Mar 2013
593
Edwardsville, Illinois, USA
The oldest Indian literature knew karma as action whose morality after death led to either heaven or hell. Karma as action in the context of rebirth is a very late model, probably the result of human thought and philosophical speculation. It is no surprise to me that the Baha'i religion reaffirms that reincarnation was not one of the original teachings. Jn 9:2 describes how the disciples of Jesus had apparently heard of the concept of reincarnation and therefore asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned? Himself? Or did his parents sin so that he was born blind?" Jesus then made it clear that suffering had nothing to do with the action in a previous life (cf. Jn 9:3) and once again clearly denied reincarnation. The Bhagavad-gita is part of the Mahabharata epic and was written only a few centuries before Christ. Krishna speaks of rebirth because at that time this faith had already spread in India. Neither Krishna nor rebirth belong to the original Vedic religion. There is also no evidence that this faith was present in the previous Indus culture. There is no doubt that the faith of the Hindus should be accepted, but it does not stand up to historical analysis. Therefore the followers of the abrahamic religions should not let themselves be chased into the fenugreek, since the Abrahamitic religions, unlike the Indian religions, have been subject to critical scientific analysis for quite some time.
I agree that the Abrahamic religions have been subject to scientific inquiry for the past few centuries, in a way that Hinduism has not, however that is changing. There are recent archaeological discoveries and textual research to try to understand the origins of the Mahabharata, which place its origins much earlier than previously thought by Western scholars. Probably the Mahabharata was added to over the centuries and the most recent additions were done around the time of Christ, but there is evidence that its origins go back at least 5000 years.See the following link.

 
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Feb 2019
251
Chicago
I agree that the Abrahamic religions have been subject to scientific inquiry for the past few centuries, in a way that Hinduism has not, however that is changing. There are recent archaeological discoveries and textual research to try to understand the origins of the Mahabharata, which place its origins much earlier than previously thought by Western scholars. Probably the Mahabharata was added to over the centuries and the most recent additions were done around the time of Christ, but there is evidence that its origins go back at least 5000 years.See the following link.

Thank you Jcc for sharing that information about Mahabharata. There is quite a bit of scientific evidence to suggest that the Hindu civilization is much older than estimated by British colonialists but many Westerners are still comfortable with the timelines set by British colonialists. Any expression of disagreement by Hindus is characterized as Hindu nationalism and supremacy and I have see some of it on this forum as well. Lord Krishna spent the later years of his life in the city of Dwaraka located in the Indian state of Gujarat. Some years ago, India's National Institute of Oceanography found some ancient artifacts and coppers coins in Gujarat's Gulf of Khambat which were sent to Oxford University for carbon dating. Some of the objects were found to be 9000 years old.

References:
Dwarka to Kurukshetra. Dr. S. R. Rao. Journal of Marine Archaeology (1995-96).
Underwater Cultural Heritage. A.S Gaur and K. H Vora. Current Science Volume 86 No 9 May 2004.
Further Excavations of the Submerged City of Dwarka. S. R. Rao. Recent Advances in Marine Archaeology

In the context of subjecting any religion to scientific inquiry, we must realize that the spiritual truths expressed in any religion can only be realized scientifically in one's consciousness through intense spiritual practices. Spiritual truths belong to the spiritual world which by definition is a non-physical realm. How then would it be possible to verify spiritual truths in a physical world? Consider the following assertions of spiritual truths made by God through the medium of Bahaullah that are part of the Hidden Words. How many Bahai including those with academic degrees and research experience in scientific fields can demonstrate the validity of these truths in a scientific laboratory? The scientific instruments we have today can't even prove the existence of a soul inside the human body!

O Son of Man!
The temple of being is My throne; cleanse it of all things, that there I may be established and there I may abide.

O Son of Being!
Thy heart is My home; sanctify it for My descent. Thy spirit is My place of revelation; cleanse it for My manifestation.