Krishna- Reincarnation - Bhagavad Gita

Feb 2019
251
Chicago
I agree that the Abrahamic religions have been subject to scientific inquiry for the past few centuries, in a way that Hinduism has not, however that is changing. [/URL]
Which scientific inquiry and examination has proven and established beyond doubt that Jesus was born to a virgin or that he resurrected his physical body after dying on the cross or that he was the Son of God. Without these fundamental beliefs there would be no Christianity but there is no evidence that these beliefs have been scientifically proven. And still we have Westerners claim that Christianity has been subject to scientific inquiry but Hinduism hasn't been.
 

ams

Nov 2019
88
Thailand
In the context of subjecting any religion to scientific inquiry, we must realize that the spiritual truths expressed in any religion can only be realized scientifically in one's consciousness through intense spiritual practices. Spiritual truths belong to the spiritual world which by definition is a non-physical realm. How then would it be possible to verify spiritual truths in a physical world?
Thats, imho, a very important point.

let us look to the following.

Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.

And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

(Mt 16)
How did Peter recognize Christ?

"Flesh and Blood" is a term for the Physics. For the outer mind.
Also even the literally reading of spiritual scriptures.

Peter did not recognize Christ in Jesus because of literally reading with the outer mind the Old Testament,
looking there for confirmation that Jesus was the Christ.

Because this would be: "revealed via the flesh and blood".

Peter recognize Christ in Jesus because... "my Father who is in heaven revealed it to you"

Means: Peter was able to tune his consciousness into God.
He was able to tune his consciousness to Heaven. ( = the spiritual world of God)

Therefore, Peter could recognize Christ in Jesus.

Next:
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
The Rock are all people who are able to do the same as Peter.

Tuning their consciousness into Heaven and therefore recognizing the spirit of Christ in the World.

If people learning this, if people are able to do this... then "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it".

Means:
Then they would be able to distinguish what is from God, and what not.
What is out of truth, and what is out of Illusion.

Then they could recognize the spirit of Christ, of truth, of life.... in the World.

Then they are able to "hear the sound of the wind wherever it bloweth".

You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit. (John 3)
That is the Rock of the true Movement of Christ.

Recognizing the spirit of Christ, of truth, of life wherever the sun is shining. wherever the rose is flourish.

Then they are able to recognize that the spirit of truth of God is found also in the teachings of Krishna and Bahāʾullāh as in Jesus.

Because their source of the truth was the same.

The sience of the "Flesh and Blood" (ourer mind, physical, historical sience, etc.. ) could not reveale it to man... because its spiritual.
("For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you")


But "everyone born of the Spirit" could recognize it. ("but my Father who is in heaven revealed it to you")

Wherever the sun is shining. be it from the West or from the East.
 

ams

Nov 2019
88
Thailand
O Son of Man!
The temple of being is My throne; cleanse it of all things, that there I may be established and there I may abide.

O Son of Being!
Thy heart is My home; sanctify it for My descent. Thy spirit is My place of revelation; cleanse it for My manifestation.
Which is equal to:
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? (1 Kor 3)
and:
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you (Lk 17)
 
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Feb 2019
251
Chicago
Means: Peter was able to tune his consciousness into God.

Therefore, Peter could recognize Christ in Jesus.
I totally agree with you. At the same time Peter's spiritual experiences and realizations are his own. He basically used his consciousness as a laboratory to verify and realize certain spiritual truths that may have been stated in the scriptures but those truths cannot be demonstrated to others in a physical scientific laboratory. Everyone that is interested has to make the necessary spiritual effort to realize the spiritual truths like Peter did within their own consciousness.

The Rock are all people who are able to do the same as Peter.
I think we have a similar understanding here and I tend to agree with you in an exoteric sense but my understanding of Jesus' words in this context leads me to believe that there is an esoteric component to them as well. I believe the rock that Jesus is referring to in an esoteric sense is the position of Christ that he attained. Since it is the height of spiritual stature, the gates of hell (evils acts of the world), cannot prevail against it and he demonstrated that even though his physical body was crucified, he could resurrect it and his love marches on. The evil act of crucifixion did not destroy his teachings or his love because they were flowing from the station of Christ. He also said that "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away - Matt: 24:35" because he spoke as a Christ.

You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit. (John 3)
There is a lot more to these words than is readily obvious. We have to consider the entire context. Jesus was not speaking to one of his 12 disciples but to Nicodemus. And that is important to know because to those that were not his disciples, he spoke in parables (Matt: 13:34) since they were not evolved enough to understand his words. It is obvious from the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus that the latter was interpreting Jesus's words literally.

Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs You are doing if God were not with him.” Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” “How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?”Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. Do not be amazed that I said, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit - John 3:1-8

The words of Jesus are so pregnant with esoteric meaning, that it will require a separate discussion and a lot more time.
 
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ams

Nov 2019
88
Thailand
All i agree also @Venu

Also this: (its the deeper interpretation)
I think we have a similar understanding here and I tend to agree with you in an exoteric sense but my understanding of Jesus' words in this context leads me to believe that there is an esoteric component to them as well. I believe the rock that Jesus is referring to in an esoteric sense is the position of Christ that he attained. Since it is the height of spiritual stature, the gates of hell (evils acts of the world), cannot prevail against it and he demonstrated that even though his physical body was crucified, he could resurrect it and his love marches on. The evil act of crucifixion did not destroy his teachings or his love because they were flowing from the station of Christ. He also said that "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away - Matt: 24:35" because he spoke as a Christ.
...
You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit. (John 3)
Right, Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus. He had trouble to understand him: Esoteric was speaking to Exoteric.
He want understand him, that why he cames to him. He comes in night because he knew many Pharisees saw in Jesus only a blasphemer. Because their mind was attached to "flesh and blood" only.
There is a lot more to these words than is readily obvious. We have to consider the entire context. Jesus was not speaking to one of his 12 disciples but to Nicodemus....

The words of Jesus are so pregnant with esoteric meaning, that it will require a separate discussion and a lot more time.
oki, let us remember it. :yes:
I know from Yogananda that Christ and Hindu inner teaching is no contradiction at all but referring to the same deep truth.
 
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Nov 2019
50
Hamburg
I agree that the Abrahamic religions have been subject to scientific inquiry for the past few centuries, in a way that Hinduism has not, however that is changing. There are recent archaeological discoveries and textual research to try to understand the origins of the Mahabharata, which place its origins much earlier than previously thought by Western scholars. Probably the Mahabharata was added to over the centuries and the most recent additions were done around the time of Christ, but there is evidence that its origins go back at least 5000 years.See the following link.
A look into the menu bar doesn't seem to speak to me for the objectivity of this page. Obviously no author wants to guarantee with his name for this article.

Whether the relationship between Hinduism and science has improved in the meantime, I cannot say. Not in my opinion. A look at Quora rather shows us that the individual Sampradayas there still disagree as to who wrote their Puranas afterwards and when.

Jay Lakhani, an Education Director for the Hindu Council (UK) and the head of The Hindu Academy (UK), recently said that people should turn their heads on and that hardly any serious person can believe that Neanderthals lived in Satya Yuga. He talked about the puranic myths that describe the eternal cycle of the world in different ages.
 
Aug 2019
86
Berlin
As a small contradiction I would note to name scientific ignorance on the one hand, Hindus with a gift for scientific reflection on the other hand, already shows the problem that Hinduism or the Vedas cannot be completely unscientific. Recently I have read a survey, where the believers of the different lines have found quite different positions on the relationship between science and religion. It is not uniform. That the church is definitely more scientifically reflected than many Vedic currents has to do with the environment. While in Western Europe faith was heavily under attack, in India much is being done politically to preserve the myths. Basically, Baha'u'llah says that science and religion are not contradictory. I agree with that and think that it is always our understanding and our level of knowledge that is responsible for whether we see conflict or not. In addition, science does not formulate final and conclusive truths, but partial insights that are constantly re-examined, reconsidered and further explored. These are different demands. It is no different with the Puranas than with the traditions of the Old Testament. There I see rather similarities between the religious views. That is why it makes no sense to play virgin birth against puranic cycles. Both are doubtful, both the birth of a virgin and, as you have called it, that "Neanderthals lived in Satya Yuga".
 

Jcc

Mar 2013
595
Edwardsville, Illinois, USA
Which scientific inquiry and examination has proven and established beyond doubt that Jesus was born to a virgin or that he resurrected his physical body after dying on the cross or that he was the Son of God. Without these fundamental beliefs there would be no Christianity but there is no evidence that these beliefs have been scientifically proven. And still we have Westerners claim that Christianity has been subject to scientific inquiry but Hinduism hasn't been.
when I say that the Abrahamic religions have been subjected to scientific inquiry, I don’t mean that all traditional beliefs have been confirmed. In fact, some have been clearly rejected, such as a literal interpretation of the creation story, or the age of the world, or Noah’s flood, etc. For some stories in the Old Testament there is archaeological confirmation, for other there is not. Maybe more evidence will come to light in the future. Also, textual analysis shows that many of the Bible books were not written by a single author, rather, text was merged and edited together from multiple sources. What I am saying that not enough of that scientific study has been done on the Hindu scriptures, and more should be done.

Of course, none of that is reason why we have religion or scripture, it is for the moral and spiritual education of people. Stories in scripture don’t have to be literally true to be the word of God, and the source of spiritual life. If people, including religious leaders think that everything has to be taken literally, they are frequently missing the most important messages. If we can peel back the curtain of history and see what did and didn’t happen literally, they we can maybe do away with some of the silly interpretations that religious leaders have developed over the centuries, and understand that there are symbolic meanings in the scripture that may have been missed because people assumed it was literal.
 

Jcc

Mar 2013
595
Edwardsville, Illinois, USA
Which scientific inquiry and examination has proven and established beyond doubt that Jesus was born to a virgin or that he resurrected his physical body after dying on the cross or that he was the Son of God. Without these fundamental beliefs there would be no Christianity but there is no evidence that these beliefs have been scientifically proven. And still we have Westerners claim that Christianity has been subject to scientific inquiry but Hinduism hasn't been.
when I say that the Abrahamic religions have been subjected to scientific inquiry, I don’t mean that all traditional beliefs have been confirmed. In fact, some have been clearly rejected, such as a literal interpretation of the creation story, or the age of the world, or Noah’s flood, etc. For some stories in the Old Testament there is archaeological confirmation, for others there is not. Maybe more evidence will come to light in the future. Also, textual analysis shows that many of the Bible books were not written by a single author, rather, text was merged and edited together from multiple sources. What I am saying that not enough of that scientific study has been done on the Hindu scriptures, and more should be done.

Of course, none of that is reason why we have religion or scripture, it is for the moral and spiritual education of people. Stories in scripture don’t have to be literally true to be the word of God, and the source of spiritual life. If people, including religious leaders think that everything has to be taken literally, they are frequently missing the most important messages. If we can peel back the curtain of history and see what did and didn’t happen literally, they we can maybe do away with some of the silly interpretations that religious leaders have developed over the centuries, and understand that there are symbolic meanings in the scripture that may have been missed because people assumed it was literal.
 
Nov 2019
50
Hamburg
What I am saying that not enough of that scientific study has been done on the Hindu scriptures, and more should be done.
There are sufficient studies and indological findings about the origin of the texts and the chronological order, more than enough.

As the Indian traditions cannot be measured against scientific standards, because the formation of myths is a decisive factor, scientific research is usually rejected.

It is assumed that scientific research deliberately reinterprets history for colonialist reasons or wants to present it as less authentic than Christian history (because research is of course so interested in strengthening Christianity, ehmm).

In short, a great conspiracy theory against science, which claims it has a vile motivation not to undergo historical-critical research.

Very interesting are the Puranas. The Puranas are stories, a wild mixture of invented, distorted or even true narratives. Each Indian religious current creates its own stories to confirm its own convictions.

They are all considered authentic knowledge as long as they share the conclusions of the original scriptures. In Western society this would rightly be answered with a shake of the head.

If one would open oneself to science and admit that these texts are not 10000 years old or similar, perhaps the social aspects contained in them would be questioned. This would of course mean that some social structures would have to be questioned. For example, the position of women, caste system and similar.