Let's get real about this religion and God thing

Sep 2010
1,318
New Zealand
No Muhammad was a false prophet like your own.

Your prophet gave no knowledge from GOd.

That being said, you must agree that Sam's beliefs in God hurt better arguments and theists everywhere. His reason for believing in God is a joke. You agree right?
 
Sep 2010
4,631
Normanton, Far North West Queensland
No Muhammad was a false prophet like your own.

Your prophet gave no knowledge from GOd.

That being said, you must agree that Sam's beliefs in God hurt better arguments and theists everywhere. His reason for believing in God is a joke. You agree right?
From what I read Sam's reasons are Ok! After all its has led Sam to the right path, that being the case it must have merit :D

God is above my understanding - I will never attain to a Station that will understand that essence - I get my knowledge through the Prophet be that Christ or Baha'u'llah - this will be my only knowledge of God.

That being said we all still have a lot to learn - I would say if you compared the size of our knowledge to the universe - The universe would be the prophets and out knowledge the smallest thing in existence that may not have even been discovered as yet.

I don't think I would then be wrong in saying that you could then equate that to god and his prophets - If I am wrong someone will correct my indiscretion:D

Cheers Tony
 
Sep 2010
1,318
New Zealand
No they are not okay. as I have discussed before. Believing in something because you want it to exist Is like me wanting water to exist in the desert to crave my thirst. When in reality there is no water. It is damaging to reality and this is what made all the false pagan Gods and Bahai. The Imagination when not recognized.

You are being willfully ignorant in saying his reasons are okay. Acknowledge they are flawed.
 
Mar 2010
1,349
Rockville, MD, USA
My reason for believing is that I cannot conceive of there being no overall guidance or plan for worldly pursuits.... [Religion] is not about a purpose for living....
In fact, it is--at least in terms of what the Baha'i Faith teaches, because it states that our purpose here is twofold:

  • As individuals, to acquire the spiritual virtues we'll need both here and in the Next Life.
  • And in aggregate, to carry forward an ever-advancing, spiritually-based civilization.

Best! :)

Bruce
 
Oct 2010
1,893
Phoenix, AZ
In fact, it is--at least in terms of what the Baha'i Faith teaches, because it states that our purpose here is twofold:

  • As individuals, to acquire the spiritual virtues we'll need both here and in the Next Life.
  • And in aggregate, to carry forward an ever-advancing, spiritually-based civilization.

Best! :)

Bruce
I believe you are correct, however, still the ultimate question of why we exist is not answered here. I believe I read that we are ultimately here to worship God, but it also states that God doesn't need to be worshiped. What you list is simply ways we can improve while we're here, and how we can get closer to perfection so our next life is more fulfilling.

For me, religion is more about creating a peaceful society and acknowledging there is something greater than ourselves at work. I enjoy Baha'i Faith more than any other simply because it does touch on philosophers as well as previous Manifestations and ultimately teaches that we should go on our own quests for spirituality and knowledge.
 
Sep 2010
1,318
New Zealand
Your religion touches on them but ignores the central thesis and ideas of the previous beliefs. Consider islam which abolished Icons for it was said that God does not ahve a form and thus cannot be depicted. yet in the New testament Paul (I know you don't like him much) tells us Christ was teh very Icon of the invisible God. The very image. Bahai can only be maintained on surface level. That is a generalised version of religions.

For instance If I say trinity

You will say "I believe in trinity to!"

Yet you have to ignore what I mean by trinity.

This is the essential flaw with what you just said.
 
Oct 2010
1,893
Phoenix, AZ
Your religion touches on them but ignores the central thesis and ideas of the previous beliefs. Consider islam which abolished Icons for it was said that God does not ahve a form and thus cannot be depicted. yet in the New testament Paul (I know you don't like him much) tells us Christ was teh very Icon of the invisible God. The very image. Bahai can only be maintained on surface level. That is a generalised version of religions.

For instance If I say trinity

You will say "I believe in trinity to!"

Yet you have to ignore what I mean by trinity.

This is the essential flaw with what you just said.
Actually, no, Baha'i do not believe in the trinity. It is said that all Manifestations were born of flesh and blood just like human beings. What makes them different, however, is that they are perfect upon birth. They mirror God himself, and thus are able to reveal his message to the people of earth.

Could it not be true that the image Paul alludes to is actually alluding to this reflection, not literally that he was the icon of God?
 
Sep 2010
1,318
New Zealand
BAhai do not believe in the trinity? Strange I have had many bahai use this word before. But perhaps you are just being honest in acknowledging the trinity of Abdul-Baha is not the trinity of the church.

That being said, the context and the phrasing of the passage in general do not relate to such a thing. Paul is literally saying Jesus is the image of God. He was God incarnate. That was the understanding of the people who followed Paul so I trust them more than I do your prophet.
 
Oct 2010
1,893
Phoenix, AZ
BAhai do not believe in the trinity? Strange I have had many bahai use this word before. But perhaps you are just being honest in acknowledging the trinity of Abdul-Baha is not the trinity of the church.

That being said, the context and the phrasing of the passage in general do not relate to such a thing. Paul is literally saying Jesus is the image of God. He was God incarnate. That was the understanding of the people who followed Paul so I trust them more than I do your prophet.
You are mistaken, Abdul-Baha was not a Manifestation of God. Abdul-Baha was the son of Baha'u'llah, and nothing more.

I also reasoned how Jesus could be considered an image as he is a reflection or Manifestation of God on this earth. He mirrored God perfectly and thus could perhaps be said to be God incarnate, although I believe, none the less, that he was still born of flesh and blood just as any other person.

I am not sure why you would believe simple followers more than a direct Manifestation, but I would never begrudge you your own spiritual path. We are both on the path leading to the same God, and thus where we differ is unimportant.
 
Oct 2010
1,893
Phoenix, AZ
My primary motivation for believing Baha'u'llah was genuine is because, so often, he deemphasizes himself. He does not require acknowledgement of himself directly, and in fact the name he chose means "Glory of God", he doesn't even wish to emphasize his given name.

I believe Jesus would have been of a similar vain had his scripture been in his own hand, however his disciples appear to worship the man instead of God directly. I do not believe this clouds his message, but certainly you cannot say it is directly the word of God when it is written by - in many cases - a third party that had never even seen the man. It is proven that the bible was not committed to text until at least 3 hundred years after his death.

I would implore you to at least read the writings of Baha'u'llah and decide whether his words hold merit for you. It is quite frustrating debating with you when it is so clear you have not even attempted to look into his teachings. I am in no way asking you to consider becoming Baha'i, I just do not find it particularly interesting to debate with someone that only wishes to argue blindly.

Even if you do not accept his teachings are of God, at least you'll no longer argue from a position of ignorance.