Motivation .. The love of God or Need of humanity?

Jun 2014
1,071
Wisconsin
#11
I am pretty confused by what you said. I mean if it does not even matter if people recognize Baha’u’llah before they die, why did Baha’u’llah write this?

“The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof, hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 330-331

“Thou hast gained admittance into the Paradise of God’s Remembrance, through thy recognition of Him Who is the Embodiment of that Remembrance amongst men.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 303
So I've only looked at the first few quotes, because I am going to assume the bulk of your quotations will contain the exact same flaws. If I am incorrect, please post a list of quotes that do not contain such flaws or error.

My question to you. Which of the following is Scripture??

“The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws" OR "The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws while they are living"??

One of these verses is Scripture, one is not. One of these verses supports your position, one does not. :p

Likewise, which of the following is Scripture??

"Thou hast gained admittance into the Paradise of God’s Remembrance, through thy living recognition of Him Who is the Embodiment of that Remembrance amongst men." OR "Thou hast gained admittance into the Paradise of God’s Remembrance, through thy recognition of Him Who is the Embodiment of that Remembrance amongst men."

Again, only one of those verses is Scripture, and only one supports your position, and they are not the same.

I looked at the next four bible verses you provide, and likewise they make no mention of a requirement that the recognition of the messenger happen prior to dying. That seems to me to be because this is not an actual requirement given to us by Scripture, but is instead a requirement of your own imagining.

You then go on to quote Shoghi Effendi who proves my point and says the spirit can and does progress post death. You say:

In other words, these souls will be dependent upon the mercy of God
But I ask to you, how is that different from the living soul??

Are we, the Living, somehow not dependent on the mercy of God to progress spiritually?? Of course not!! We are dependent on the mercy of God to progress, even if we are Living!!

So sure, you're right, these deceased souls will be dependent upon the mercy of God, just as us living souls are.

I get that as we all are living ourselves, we are likely to think our being living is somehow special or better than those who are dead because of our inherent bias... but I don't see any actual evidence towards that fact.

You post a good many quotes about how only through recognition of God through the prophets is required for spiritual development, but I don't see a single quote of yours that says that recognition is something only the living may do (indeed, a few of your quotes explicitly say otherwise!!). If I missed a quote that states that living recognition is a requirement, let me know.

But I posit this: Every single Prophet and Manifestation of God is dead.

Ergo there surely are far more opportunities for the recognition of God's Prophets for the Dead than there are for the Living. At most, a Living person may have met up to two manifestations if they were lucky to live in the right time and place to do so. But a Dead person could potentially meet with... all of them.
 
Apr 2018
19
Ontario
#12
So I've only looked at the first few quotes, because I am going to assume the bulk of your quotations will contain the exact same flaws. If I am incorrect, please post a list of quotes that do not contain such flaws or error.

My question to you. Which of the following is Scripture??

“The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws" OR "The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws while they are living"??

One of these verses is Scripture, one is not. One of these verses supports your position, one does not. :p

Likewise, which of the following is Scripture??

"Thou hast gained admittance into the Paradise of God’s Remembrance, through thy living recognition of Him Who is the Embodiment of that Remembrance amongst men." OR "Thou hast gained admittance into the Paradise of God’s Remembrance, through thy recognition of Him Who is the Embodiment of that Remembrance amongst men."

Again, only one of those verses is Scripture, and only one supports your position, and they are not the same.

I looked at the next four bible verses you provide, and likewise they make no mention of a requirement that the recognition of the messenger happen prior to dying. That seems to me to be because this is not an actual requirement given to us by Scripture, but is instead a requirement of your own imagining.

You then go on to quote Shoghi Effendi who proves my point and says the spirit can and does progress post death. You say:



But I ask to you, how is that different from the living soul??

Are we, the Living, somehow not dependent on the mercy of God to progress spiritually?? Of course not!! We are dependent on the mercy of God to progress, even if we are Living!!

So sure, you're right, these deceased souls will be dependent upon the mercy of God, just as us living souls are.

I get that as we all are living ourselves, we are likely to think our being living is somehow special or better than those who are dead because of our inherent bias... but I don't see any actual evidence towards that fact.

You post a good many quotes about how only through recognition of God through the prophets is required for spiritual development, but I don't see a single quote of yours that says that recognition is something only the living may do (indeed, a few of your quotes explicitly say otherwise!!). If I missed a quote that states that living recognition is a requirement, let me know.

But I posit this: Every single Prophet and Manifestation of God is dead.

Ergo there surely are far more opportunities for the recognition of God's Prophets for the Dead than there are for the Living. At most, a Living person may have met up to two manifestations if they were lucky to live in the right time and place to do so. But a Dead person could potentially meet with... all of them.
I can tell by your post you have not read the Writings often. Did you post this while you were drunk or are you just trying to be funny. 🤔
 
Sep 2017
358
Earth
#13
So I've only looked at the first few quotes, because I am going to assume the bulk of your quotations will contain the exact same flaws. If I am incorrect, please post a list of quotes that do not contain such flaws or error.

My question to you. Which of the following is Scripture??

“The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws" OR "The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws while they are living"??

One of these verses is Scripture, one is not. One of these verses supports your position, one does not. :p

Likewise, which of the following is Scripture??

"Thou hast gained admittance into the Paradise of God’s Remembrance, through thy living recognition of Him Who is the Embodiment of that Remembrance amongst men." OR "Thou hast gained admittance into the Paradise of God’s Remembrance, through thy recognition of Him Who is the Embodiment of that Remembrance amongst men."

Again, only one of those verses is Scripture, and only one supports your position, and they are not the same.

I looked at the next four bible verses you provide, and likewise they make no mention of a requirement that the recognition of the messenger happen prior to dying. That seems to me to be because this is not an actual requirement given to us by Scripture, but is instead a requirement of your own imagining.

You then go on to quote Shoghi Effendi who proves my point and says the spirit can and does progress post death. You say:



But I ask to you, how is that different from the living soul??

Are we, the Living, somehow not dependent on the mercy of God to progress spiritually?? Of course not!! We are dependent on the mercy of God to progress, even if we are Living!!

So sure, you're right, these deceased souls will be dependent upon the mercy of God, just as us living souls are.

I get that as we all are living ourselves, we are likely to think our being living is somehow special or better than those who are dead because of our inherent bias... but I don't see any actual evidence towards that fact.

You post a good many quotes about how only through recognition of God through the prophets is required for spiritual development, but I don't see a single quote of yours that says that recognition is something only the living may do (indeed, a few of your quotes explicitly say otherwise!!). If I missed a quote that states that living recognition is a requirement, let me know.

But I posit this: Every single Prophet and Manifestation of God is dead.

Ergo there surely are far more opportunities for the recognition of God's Prophets for the Dead than there are for the Living. At most, a Living person may have met up to two manifestations if they were lucky to live in the right time and place to do so. But a Dead person could potentially meet with... all of them.
Walrus I like your take on it to it speaks to my heart, but my question is why does Abdul Baha seem to emphasise the idea that recognition of God can only come through his mercy alone in the next life I feel that although in Both worlds it’s through his bounty but maybe here we play more of a role even a 1%? Because he emphasised it
 
Jul 2017
373
Olympia, WA, USA
#14
My question to you. Which of the following is Scripture??

“The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws" OR "The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws while they are living"??

One of these verses is Scripture, one is not. One of these verses supports your position, one does not.
There is no scripture that says: "The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws while they are living."

One of those is scripture, and one of those is changing scripture to support your position.

Baha’u’llah was writing to those who were living, so it applies to those who are living.
Likewise, which of the following is Scripture??

"Thou hast gained admittance into the Paradise of God’s Remembrance, through thy living recognition of Him Who is the Embodiment of that Remembrance amongst men." OR "Thou hast gained admittance into the Paradise of God’s Remembrance, through thy recognition of Him Who is the Embodiment of that Remembrance amongst men."

Again, only one of those verses is Scripture, and only one supports your position, and they are not the same.
Again, one of those is scripture, and one of those is changing scripture to support your position. By adding “living recognition” to the scripture, you are changing the meaning of what Baha’u’llah wrote.
I looked at the next four bible verses you provide, and likewise they make no mention of a requirement that the recognition of the messenger happen prior to dying. That seems to me to be because this is not an actual requirement given to us by Scripture, but is instead a requirement of your own imagining.
Of course it is a requirement before we die. Jesus was talking to people who were living, not dead. That is how we know.

John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

“Incline your ears to the sweet melody of this Prisoner. Arise, and lift up your voices, that haply they that are fast asleep may be awakened. Say: O ye who are as dead! The Hand of Divine bounty proffereth unto you the Water of Life. Hasten and drink your fill. Whoso hath been re-born in this Day, shall never die; whoso remaineth dead, shall never live.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213
You then go on to quote Shoghi Effendi who proves my point and says the spirit can and does progress post death. You say:

"Concerning your question whether a soul can receive knowledge of the Truth in the world beyond. Such a knowledge is surely possible, and is but a sign of the loving mercy of the Almighty. We can, through our prayers, help every soul to gradually attain this high station, even if it has failed to reach it in this world. The progress of the soul does not come to an end with death. It rather starts along a new line. Bahá'u'lláh teaches that great and far-reaching possibilities await the soul in the other world. Spiritual progress in that realm is infinite, and no man, while on this earth, can visualize its full power and extent."
(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, May 22, 1935)
Lights of Guidance (second part): A Bahá'í Reference File
He said it is surely possible, but it is dependent upon the mercy of God. Moreover, what if nobody prays for these souls? Baha’u’llah said that possibilities await the soul in the next world, but He did not say they await every soul. Clearly they do not.

“Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him. If it be faithful to God, it will reflect His light, and will, eventually, return unto Him. If it fail, however, in its allegiance to its Creator, it will become a victim to self and passion, and will, in the end, sink in their depths. Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 158-159

“Thou hast, moreover, asked Me concerning the state of the soul after its separation from the body. Know thou, of a truth, that if the soul of man hath walked in the ways of God, it will, assuredly, return and be gathered to the glory of the Beloved. By the righteousness of God! It shall attain a station such as no pen can depict, or tongue describe. The soul that hath remained faithful to the Cause of God, and stood unwaveringly firm in His Path shall, after his ascension, be possessed of such power that all the worlds which the Almighty hath created can benefit through him. Such a soul provideth, at the bidding of the Ideal King and Divine Educator, the pure leaven that leaveneth the world of being, and furnisheth the power through which the arts and wonders of the world are made manifest. Consider how meal needeth leaven to be leavened with. Those souls that are the symbols of detachment are the leaven of the world. Meditate on this, and be of the thankful.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 161

Clearly, Baha’u’llah makes no promises of a second chance after we leave this life. We were given one chance, but I believe that a just God will take into consideration the reasons why we threw that chance away, although if we never heard of Baha’u’llah we are not accountable.
Trailblazer said:
In other words, these souls will be dependent upon the mercy of God

But I ask to you, how is that different from the living soul??

Are we, the Living, somehow not dependent on the mercy of God to progress spiritually?? Of course not!! We are dependent on the mercy of God to progress, even if we are Living!!
No, sorry. In this life, everything we do is dependent upon our own volition, the free will decisions that we make.

“And now, concerning thy question regarding the creation of man. Know thou that all men have been created in the nature made by God, the Guardian, the Self-Subsisting. Unto each one hath been prescribed a pre-ordained measure, as decreed in God’s mighty and guarded Tablets. All that which ye potentially possess can, however, be manifested only as a result of your own volition. Your own acts testify to this truth…”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 149

Question.—Is man a free agent in all his actions, or is he compelled and constrained?
Answer.—This question is one of the most important and abstruse of divine problems. If God wills, another day, at the beginning of dinner, we will undertake the explanation of this subject in detail; now we will explain it briefly, in a few words, as follows. Some things are subject to the free will of man, such as justice, equity, tyranny and injustice, in other words, good and evil actions; it is evident and clear that these actions are, for the most part, left to the will of man. But there are certain things to which man is forced and compelled, such as sleep, death, sickness, decline of power, injuries and misfortunes; these are not subject to the will of man, and he is not responsible for them, for he is compelled to endure them. But in the choice of good and bad actions he is free, and he commits them according to his own will.


For example, if he wishes, he can pass his time in praising God, or he can be occupied with other thoughts. He can be an enkindled light through the fire of the love of God, and a philanthropist loving the world, or he can be a hater of mankind, and engrossed with material things. He can be just or cruel. These actions and these deeds are subject to the control of the will of man himself; consequently, he is responsible for them.
Some Answered Questions, p. 248
Free will is the reason why we are held accountable by God for our choice to believe or not.
“Tear asunder, in My Name, the veils that have grievously blinded your vision, and, through the power born of your belief in the unity of God, scatter the idols of vain imitation. Enter, then, the holy paradise of the good-pleasure of the All-Merciful. Sanctify your souls from whatsoever is not of God, and taste ye the sweetness of rest within the pale of His vast and mighty Revelation, and beneath the shadow of His supreme and infallible authority. Suffer not yourselves to be wrapt in the dense veils of your selfish desires, inasmuch as I have perfected in every one of you My creation, so that the excellence of My handiwork may be fully revealed unto men. It follows, therefore, that every man hath been, and will continue to be, able of himself to appreciate the Beauty of God, the Glorified. Had he not been endowed with such a capacity, how could he be called to account for his failure? If, in the Day when all the peoples of the earth will be gathered together, any man should, whilst standing in the presence of God, be asked: “Wherefore hast thou disbelieved in My Beauty and turned away from My Self,” and if such a man should reply and say: “Inasmuch as all men have erred, and none hath been found willing to turn his face to the Truth, I, too, following their example, have grievously failed to recognize the Beauty of the Eternal,” such a plea will, assuredly, be rejected. For the faith of no man can be conditioned by any one except himself.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 143
So sure, you're right, these deceased souls will be dependent upon the mercy of God, just as us living souls are.
No, we are not dependent upon the mercy of God in this life; we are dependent upon our free will coupled with the assistance of God. We are only able to use our free will with the assistance of God, but we are making the choices -- Nevertheless, the rudder of the ship turns it to either side.

Now another question arises. Man is absolutely helpless and dependent, since might and power belong especially to God. Both exaltation and humiliation depend upon the good pleasure and the will of the Most High............

Also the inaction or the movement of man depend upon the assistance of God. If he is not aided, he is not able to do either good or evil. But when the help of existence comes from the Generous Lord, he is able to do both good and evil; but if the help is cut off, he remains absolutely helpless. This is why in the Holy Books they speak of the help and assistance of God. So this condition is like that of a ship which is moved by the power of the wind or steam; if this power ceases, the ship cannot move at all. Nevertheless, the rudder of the ship turns it to either side, and the power of the steam moves it in the desired direction. If it is directed to the east, it goes to the east; or if it is directed to the west, it goes to the west. This motion does not come from the ship; no, it comes from the wind or the steam. Some Answered Questions, pp. 248-249
I get that as we all are living ourselves, we are likely to think our being living is somehow special or better than those who are dead because of our inherent bias... but I don't see any actual evidence towards that fact.

You post a good many quotes about how only through recognition of God through the prophets is required for spiritual development, but I don't see a single quote of yours that says that recognition is something only the living may do (indeed, a few of your quotes explicitly say otherwise!!). If I missed a quote that states that living recognition is a requirement, let me know.
It is implicit in all the Holy Scriptures. The whole purpose of this life is so we can get the spiritual attributes that we will need in the afterlife.

“The Prophets and Messengers of God have been sent down for the sole purpose of guiding mankind to the straight Path of Truth. The purpose underlying Their revelation hath been to educate all men, that they may, at the hour of death, ascend, in the utmost purity and sanctity and with absolute detachment, to the throne of the Most High.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 156-157
But I posit this: Every single Prophet and Manifestation of God is dead.

Ergo there surely are far more opportunities for the recognition of God's Prophets for the Dead than there are for the Living. At most, a Living person may have met up to two manifestations if they were lucky to live in the right time and place to do so. But a Dead person could potentially meet with... all of them.
Why should they be given that opportunity after if they rejected God’s Prophets in this life? That would be a grave injustice. God is just, so people get what they have earned by virtue of the free will decisions they make.

“Blessed is the soul which, at the hour of its separation from the body, is sanctified from the vain imaginings of the peoples of the world. Such a soul liveth and moveth in accordance with the Will of its Creator, and entereth the all-highest Paradise. The Maids of Heaven, inmates of the loftiest mansions, will circle around it, and the Prophets of God and His chosen ones will seek its companionship. With them that soul will freely converse, and will recount unto them that which it hath been made to endure in the path of God, the Lord of all worlds.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 156
 
Jul 2017
373
Olympia, WA, USA
#15
Walrus I like your take on it to it speaks to my heart, but my question is why does Abdul Baha seem to emphasise the idea that recognition of God can only come through his mercy alone in the next life I feel that although in Both worlds it’s through his bounty but maybe here we play more of a role even a 1%? Because he emphasised it
Clearly, it is not only through God's bounty that we recognize Baha'u'llah in this life.

It is true that certain people are guided:

“Great indeed is this Day! The allusions made to it in all the sacred Scriptures as the Day of God attest its greatness. The soul of every Prophet of God, of every Divine Messenger, hath thirsted for this wondrous Day. All the divers kindreds of the earth have, likewise, yearned to attain it. No sooner, however, had the Day Star of His Revelation manifested itself in the heaven of God’s Will, than all, except those whom the Almighty was pleased to guide, were found dumbfounded and heedless.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 11


“So blind hath become the human heart that neither the disruption of the city, nor the reduction of the mountain in dust, nor even the cleaving of the earth, can shake off its torpor. The allusions made in the Scriptures have been unfolded, and the signs recorded therein have been revealed, and the prophetic cry is continually being raised. And yet all, except such as God was pleased to guide, are bewildered in the drunkenness of their heedlessness!”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 39

But then we have to ask WHY they are guided and others are not guided. We cannot know the reasons why some people are guided but there are some answers in the Writings of Baha'u'llah.

Baha'u'llah says that people who make efforts will be guided and that implies that those who do not make efforts will not be guided.

“These are among the attributes of the exalted, and constitute the hall-mark of the spiritually-minded. They have already been mentioned in connection with the requirements of the wayfarers that tread the path of Positive Knowledge. When the detached wayfarer and sincere seeker hath fulfilled these essential conditions, then and only then can he be called a true seeker. Whensoever he hath fulfilled the conditions implied in the verse: “Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.””
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 266-267


And in this passage it indicates that those who rebel against God will not be guided, which makes sense because God does not override free will to MAKE the rebellious believe in Him.

"Some were guided by the Light of God, gained admittance into the court of His presence, and quaffed, from the hand of resignation, the waters of everlasting life, and were accounted of them that have truly recognized and believed in Him. Others rebelled against Him, and rejected the signs of God, the Most Powerful, the Almighty, the All-Wise.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 145
 
Sep 2017
358
Earth
#16
Why does believing make you worthy of paradise and the sinners not. Everyone is selfish not just the sinners as stated by Abdul Baha ... so what have the believers done that the unbelievers have not except believe in God for their own benefit?

For self-love is kneaded into the very clay of man, and it is not possible that, without any hope of a substantial reward, he should neglect his own present material good. That individual, however, who puts his faith in God and believes in the words of God—because he is promised and certain of a plentiful reward in the next life, and because worldly benefits as compared to the abiding joy and glory of future planes of existence are nothing to him—will for the sake of God abandon his own peace and profit and will freely consecrate his heart and soul to the common good. - Abdul Baha
 
May 2018
111
New Zealand
#17
Should my motivation to teach come from the love of God or the needs of humanity?

My motivation seems to Be springing from my love of God and his perfection rather then the needs of humanity and that’s because I believe God will guide whoever searches for him ‘Those who strive for us we shall surely guide them to our ways’ this makes me feel there is not a major need for me to be rushing around trying to guide people but I feel that most Bahá’í always talk about the urgent needs of humanity but my motivations can’t come when I feel there is contradictions in my heart. I still feel like teaching purely out of my love for his cause even if nobody wants to listen that’s fine
To go back to your original post / question .
I would think to love God is to serve humanity.

"It is incumbent upon every man of insight and understanding to strive to translate that which hath been written into reality and action…. That one indeed is a man who, today, dedicateth himself to the service of the entire human race. The Great Being saith: Blessed and happy is he that ariseth to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. In another passage He hath proclaimed: It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens". – Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 249.
 
Jul 2017
373
Olympia, WA, USA
#18
Why does believing make you worthy of paradise and the sinners not. Everyone is selfish not just the sinners as stated by Abdul Baha ... so what have the believers done that the unbelievers have not except believe in God for their own benefit?
It is not belief alone that makes people worthy. It is what they do with that belief. Hopefully, believers sacrifice some things they want for God and the Cause of God. Atheists don't have to follow any laws or teachings or sacrifice anything for God. It is a completely different life.

Hopefully, believers do not believe in God for their own benefit because that is not the proper motive.
 
Likes: Traveller
Sep 2017
358
Earth
#19
It is not belief alone that makes people worthy. It is what they do with that belief. Hopefully, believers sacrifice some things they want for God and the Cause of God. Atheists don't have to follow any laws or teachings or sacrifice anything for God. It is a completely different life.

Hopefully, believers do not believe in God for their own benefit because that is not the proper motive.
Is God not the beneift ? What does it make of Abdul Bahas quote ?

For self-love is kneaded into the very clay of man, and it is not possible that, without any hope of a substantial reward, he should neglect his own present material good. That individual, however, who puts his faith in God and believes in the words of God—because he is promised and certain of a plentiful reward in the next life, and because worldly benefits as compared to the abiding joy and glory of future planes of existence are nothing to him—will for the sake of God abandon his own peace and profit and will freely consecrate his heart and soul to the common good. - Abdul Baha
 
Jul 2017
373
Olympia, WA, USA
#20
Is God not the beneift ?
What does it make of Abdul Bahas quote ?
That depends upon how you look at it. Even if we believe that God benefits us, what personal benefits do we really get until after we die, compared to what we have to sacrifice?

I think that was the entire point of Abdu'l-Baha's quote. It all boils down to the next life, a life we are told hardly anything about. We are just supposed to believe it is going to be so much better than this life. :rolleyes:

For self-love is kneaded into the very clay of man, and it is not possible that, without any hope of a substantial reward, he should neglect his own present material good. That individual, however, who puts his faith in God and believes in the words of God—because he is promised and certain of a plentiful reward in the next life, and because worldly benefits as compared to the abiding joy and glory of future planes of existence are nothing to him—will for the sake of God abandon his own peace and profit and will freely consecrate his heart and soul to the common good. - Abdul Baha

For me , what I do is because it is the right thing to do according to Baha'u'llah, not for any reward. I do not even want to live forever in some strange realm. :confused: But I think most people do, so it is my duty to help them attain that if possible.
 

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