My Notes for Climate Change

Oct 2014
1,797
Stockholm
#21
It's all about agenda setting. Why should we take sides in a debate, where the agenda has been set in a politicized manner? I might hold personal opinions on this matter, but why should I challenge the unity of our community with such viewpoints? As far as I know, our main task is not to engage in public debate on political issues, but rather to raise people's awareness of the need to improve one's character. That is hard enough, judging from my own experience, which has shown that in the area which I deal with, it has been generally accepted that children's lives are ruined by lies, half-truths and idle fantasies, presented by government agencies as facts.

I am absolutely sure that the "facts" presented by proponents of different views on climate issues have been doctored in the same way, making it impossible for us to come up with any valuable ideas. I'm just sure of one thing: they lie to us, and we should't get enmeshed in those lies in such a way that we put our community in danger.

I could mention a few other areas, where they have lied to us, but I prefer not to. By now, I have been around for a few years. I have seen a few things. Actually, I'm perfectly qualified to hold a position as e g a government auditor, but I can assure you that such an appointment will occur when pigs fly, because I have a life-long habit of reporting what my own ears and my own eyes have registered.

Best,

from

gnat
 
May 2018
111
New Zealand
#22
"I'm just sure of one thing: they lie to us"

This statement interests me, because I can't believe that thousands of scientists from around the world have been lying to us for 30 years about the data they have collected.

Why do you believe thousands of people from different countries and political standings are falsefying their results ?

-T
 
May 2018
111
New Zealand
#23
The point I was trying to make is, while an "average global temperature increase of 1C" doesn't seem like a big increase, it clearly is, because the polar ice caps are melting...
 
Oct 2014
1,797
Stockholm
#24
Why do you believe thousands of people from different countries and political standings are falsefying their results ? -T[/QUOTE said:
I'm not saying that an individual scientist lies and falsifies his/her results. The lying is much more sophisticated. It goes on in the compilation of the results of numerous scientists. It goes on in the selection processes in the funding agencies. It goes on in media, where it is deceded which reports to present.

Therefore, in order to say anything meaningful about the climate, we'd have to dig into the enormous piles of research report and figure out how differents reports have been presented and how their findings have been combined.

We don't do any service to mankind nor to the Bahá'í community, if we allow our bleeding hearts to guide us to take sides in heated, polarized debates, where the other side is presented as a "strawman", in a black-and-white mind pattern.

And the same goes for other issues of the same dimension, such as the world's distribution of wealth or migration.

If the Bahá'í community has a role to play in this climate debate, I assume that it could be a minor, very humble role, at the grassroots level, very far from the heated debate.

Best,

from

gnat
 
Likes: jimhabegger
May 2018
111
New Zealand
#25
The question is then who is doing the lying ? What global coordinator is organising this ??

Within one country, maybe the distribution of funding could prevent research being carried out, or what gets published, but with this issue too many countries are involved to organise something like that . Which group could achieve that ?

Sorry I'm just trying to understand where your paranoia and mistrust of science is coming from.

I know that the situation where one learned something influence how likely one is to believe it.. So from my side climate change was a debate when I was in high school, by the time I was at university of was scientific consensus. In the same why that I believe smoking causes lung cancer, I believe humans activity has cause climate change. For me it has never been a political issue. The political issue is how to fix it.

-T
 
Sep 2012
358
Panama
#26
Pete its a global average. That would imply some places are cooler, some are hotter?

Regarda Tony
You may have missed what we were talking about previously. My guess is that everyone here has at least enough of an education to be able to read, right, and do simple math --including understanding how to calculate the average of several numbers. That's not the issue.

What we're talking about here is the beginning of the statement that opened the thread:
...Since the Industrial Revolution, global average temperature has increased by about 1°C (1.8°F)....
--and these numbers can vary from source to source. Some folks say it's a 1.5C rise since 1880, others say less. Just the same, the entire belief system under discussion is based on some form of this opening statement yet the idea coming up now is that it's irrelevant --a snag or a hang up. Dismissing climate warming as a mere hang up imho would mean that we've now decided to consider the entire concept of anthropogenic global warming to be a matter of feelings, not science. That's hard for me to believe.

While agreement is preferable, clarity is essential in the investigation of the truth.
 
Sep 2012
358
Panama
#28
...I am absolutely sure that the "facts" presented by proponents of different views on climate issues have been doctored in the same way, making it impossible for us to come up with any valuable ideas...
This may be a good time to remember HANLON’S RAZOR: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. The idea being that the numbers may not have been doctored as much as they've been botched.

We've heard it said that while everyone's entitled to his own opinion, nobody's entitled to his own facts. That's crazy, everyone's got their own facts because even though some facts support a favored position there're always other facts that go w/ the other guy. imho the role of consultation is to see the truth in all the various agendas and then step back to look at the whole picture.

Kind of like the old Hindu tale of the king sending his near-sighted advisers to report on the nature of the elephant --one hitting the side & saying it's like a wall, another finding the leg saying the elephant's like a tree, etc. Reality is that all the elephant reports were true --the elephant did in fact have parts that were like a tree, wall, rope (tail), etc.

This is how we can go into the climate thing, everyone sharing reports that may appear to conflict but may in fact be coherent.
 
Sep 2012
358
Panama
#30
"...you believe thousands of people from different countries and political standings are falsefying their results ? -T
Scientists are people who work for a living, and when they're paid to find and present evidence in support of some particular idea they can get it. In fact, for just $100,000 I can come up w/ some very impressive experimental evidence that the earth is flat.

Hell, we can even begin a new thread on the subject if you want.
 

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