Narcissistic Personality Disorder at RISK in Polygamous Families

Sep 2010
4,461
Normanton Far North Queensland
#11
When Baha'u'llah was in Bahji He didn't live with Navvab, the Greatest Holy Leaf, or Abdu'l-Baha, but He lived with the rest of His family.
It is a great meditation to consider that the Covernant of Baha'u'llah and the wisdom of the Laws for this age were first severely tested by Baha'ullah's own family.

Through the whole unfolding process of this, Baha'u'llah kept them under His Protection, as did Abdul'baha and then Shoghi Effendi. This shows God does not interfere with our choices and gives us ample chances to implement the required change of the wisdom of Gods Laws into our lives.

It is also good to note the Laws for this age are the balance between all past laws that have now been clouded by a wayward humanity.

Regards Tony
 
Aug 2014
1,368
Blue Planet
#12
. 2)

You can look up more passages you want which explain that the 2nd and 3rd Wives of Baha'u'llah happened when he was either still a Shiite Muslim or a Babi and wasn't yet the manifestation of God because he was still in those dispensations all you want. My point is, polygamy still was less than optimal and ideal and this is an area where I have a hard time accepting Baha'u'llah as anything other than a hypocrit. Its like he used his children as test dummies and guinnea pigs in human experimentation gone horribly wrong? By delegating a hierarchy of his Main Squeeze Navvab and the children he knocked her up with to be subject to BRUTAL competition with the other 2 wives and THEIR children. (THE BROTHER AND SISTERS OF ANOTHER MOTHERS and their successors) That's a setup for jealousy and scarcity. If I'm ever going to be a
Bahai again I would have to accept that Abdu'l-Baha was completely aware of what his role to endure this experiment and see the pathology for what it is bunch, His stepmothers as a bunch !@#$-ing conniving bitches his step mothers brainwashing and programming and poisoning the minds of his little brothers a bunch of lies. As successor to head The Bahai Faith, Abdu'l-Baha had to discover that the hard way and affirm Monogamy is the real Law of God because his wicked little half brother was a conniving **ickhead. So I don't know if anyone else here can help me percieve the latest Greatest Manifestation of God and his lifestyle as an antiquated Persian aristocrcy filthy rich playboy without that contempt? [AT LEAST until he suffered persecution for being a Babi?] Maybe there is? I don't know. Can anyone reading these forums help me out here? I'd love to hear from you.

First of all, I should like to ask if you have ever been a Baha'i, because you said if you want to be a Baha'i "again". maybe it is not my business, and forgive me if I am being impolite asking this personal question; I am just curious. Leave the answer alone if you feel uncomfortable :)

Now on the subject of the jealousy of wives, some times ago I was listening to a lecture by a famous Persian Baha'i scholar. I do not have the text of the lecture so I cannot provide you with references. But he said something very interesting. He said, Bahaullah, from the very beginning knew that Abdul Baha was going to be a special son, the greatest support of His father, as a result, He, bahaullah, gave muchhhhh more attention to His other sons, so that they, too, could be great people. He wanted them to feel no lack of love. The man said Bahaullah would spend more time playing with His other sons than with Abdul Baha. And yet, The other Son because an enemy. We can say it was the poison his mother injected to his brain, but, as a grown up, he too, had eyes to see and brain to think. First of all, his Father had always been kind to him, and second, His father had special duties as a Manifestation, so He could not do the things ordinary father can do when they are with their sons. I, personally, give no credit to jealousy and can bring no excuses for it. People are free to chose who they are going to be. If I am born in a family of murderers and addicts, I should chose to be a different person with my free will. We also have the Hidden Word that says something like "God would never enter a heart that has the least trace of jealousy in it". Jealousy is a grievous sin; is blindness and it brings with it other things like enmity, hatred, sadness. I do not know how you are bringing justifications for jealousy while , in my idea, it cannot be justified under ANY circumstances.
As for the subject of polygamy, I am sure all my friends here have better words to say. I can only say that it has been so ordinary and so accepted in the society of Iran, that doing it would not look like a mistake. The two wives of a man could most often live together in peace and they usually would become each others' best friends.
 
Jun 2014
1,061
Wisconsin
#13
Since you've posted the same topic on two threads, here's again my counterargument to your own:

No matter how primitive or distant or ancient the "dispensation era" of which or what Manifestation of God or what, Polygamy is a brutal and barbaric system of reproductive competition of men against other men for sexual privileges with women. If there's a multiple husband society it seems the same vice versa. Its a form of disgusting elitism. Polygamy induces EXTREME RISKS of sibling jealousy and resentment. The Most notorious sibling rift was Abdu'l-Baha's Brother "The Center of Sedition" Mirza Muhammad Ali.
Well RoZS... you are wrong.

Polygamy ain't ideal, but it's the best system there is when you live in a society where there are more women than men.

In the past, there was provably a high rate of workplace death for men, which lead to an imbalance of men and women. Genetic testing has shown that twice as many women over the course of human history survived to a reproductive age as did men.

So I ask you, in one of any number of past societies, where there were more living women than men, what is your solution??

Do you have monogamy, and let the extra women who can't find a husband go without one forever?? That seems horribly unjust.

Polygamy seems the best way to fix that situation to me. Do you have a better solution??

Polygamy only becomes, as you put it, "a brutal and barbaric system of reproductive competition" when the number of men and women in a society are equal. Which is why modern polygamous societies are having all the problems that they are having.

But the societies of the past did not have an equal number of men and women. Men died to war and hard labor. Women were excluded from military service and most hard labor. There were more women then men. In a society with unequal numbers among the genders, monogamy causes, to borrow your wording, "a brutal and barbaric system of reproductive competition of women against other women for sexual privileges with men".

So what, if anything, is your competing solution to a society with a gender imbalance??
 
#14
Well RoZS... you are wrong.

Polygamy ain't ideal, but it's the best system there is when you live in a society where there are more women than men.
And how do you suppose that happens in the first place?

There's all sorts of clever ways to induce that deficit of men to be the great Social Darwinist "Alpha Male" who gets the privileges of polygamy:

To the victor goes the spoils:

1. Out right warfare
2. pedophile homosexual coercion
3. Forced castrations and or Eunoch recruitment campaigns to guard the harems for the remaining men with elitist penises

etc. etc. etc. take your pick of how perversions escalate
 
#15
brutal "To the victor goes the spoils"

And how do you suppose that happens in the first place?



There's all sorts of clever ways to induce that deficit of men to be the great Social Darwinist "Alpha Male" who gets the privileges of polygamy:

To the victor goes the spoils:

1. Out right warfare
2. pedophile homosexual coercion
3. Forced castrations and Eunach recruitment campaigns to guard the harems for the remaining men with elitist penises

etc. etc. etc. take your pick of how perversions escalate in t
Men died to war and hard labor.
exactly because they were brainwashed and exploited into being slaves through cruelty. And you talk as though that was suppose to have been normal in previous dispensations? We can all just rationalize previous dispensations as completely un-evolved and cut Baha'u'llah some slack because he was the one breaking through with something novel and new and revolutionary for His Great Era? And his lifetime is the Center of all of Humanity? I struggle to do that unless there's some kind of reconciliation for all my brothers coerced into slavery or martyred for resisting slavery.
 
#16
Equal Sexes: is the natural course of biological probability and evolution

Polygamy only becomes, as you put it, "a brutal and barbaric system of reproductive competition" when the number of men and women in a society are equal. Which is why modern polygamous societies are having all the problems that they are having.
That's the natural course of biological probability and evolution. That's natural Universal Law that's ancient long before the Kitabi- Aqdas revolving around everything.
 
#17
origins of enslaving men to fight wars for Elitist men

More on the slavery that makes a scarcity of men to provoke them to fight other men for sexual privilages, and the pyramid scheme of war:


 
Jun 2014
1,061
Wisconsin
#18
And how do you suppose that happens in the first place?
No, you don't even need those things to get a gender imbalance.

Look at the rate of men who die in the workplace compared to that of women, even today in countries where there is equal opportunity for employment.

According to the US Bureau of Labor, in 2015 there were 4,836 workplace deaths in the United States. 4,492 of those, or 93%, were men. You don't need slavery or castration or "alpha males" or what have you, all human societies thusfar in our history have been organized in such a way that the more dangerous work falls disproportionally on the males.

Culturally speaking, for biological and Darwinian reasons of the survival of the species, every human culture has developed in a way where the males of the species take the riskier carriers, because the female portion of reproduction is the more time-consuming and resource-consuming part of the equation.

It has nothing to do with modern society being more enlightened or "evolved" as you put it, but merely that we are more technologically advanced. Many societies are now advanced to the point where our workplace fatalities are ridiculously low. 4,492 men dying in 2015 is a tiny portion of the US. It causes an imbalance between the amount of men and women in that country, but it's a very small variance.

Now take away modern technology and safety. The higher and higher that the percentage of the population killed in the workplace climbs, the greater and greater the disparity between men and women grows.

There's a slight problem in that we don't know the exact percentage of people who died in the workplace in the past, because frankly no one had the ability to track such a thing in older eras, again a limit of technology. The only career-related deaths tracked in the ancient era, for example, were military deaths.

With military deaths, I can find one historian, Nathan Rosenstei, who reports about a 4% yearly mortality rate for the Roman military in the era of the early Roman Republic, this equates to 6,000 workplace related deaths from military alone each year. We have no figures on workplace fatalities for other careers, like mining and fishing, all of which were much more dangerous than our current level of technology permits.

So we can see from example in the ancient era, there were nations with more workplace death each year than the US currently has (and I can't even count the numbers dead outside of one specific career!!), yet had far less people population-wise than the US.

So what do you think that would do to the imbalance between men and women population-wise??

So how do you solve that imbalance??

You could force women to fight in wars as well and work in dangerous fields like the men. Then you have an equal amount of men and women, however that cripples a nation's population growth (as when a woman dies, your society looses not only her but all the children she might have had in the future).

You could enforce monogamy and force the excess women to be deprived of relationships forever, which also impacts your society's rate of reproduction. You've already declared it is "unfair" to make men compete over women, so I think you wouldn't choose this solution as it would be equally unfair to make women compete to get men.

Or you have polygyny. Which maximizes your society's rate of reproduction by not limiting it based on the male population.

You speak of problems with Mormon polygyny. But they implemented that system in an age when workplace deaths were greatly reduced (merely due to technology). In such a society with that level of technology, polygyny is untenable for the reasons you describe.

But in the ancient era, where there are going to be more men that die than women, what is your alternate solution?? I'm still awaiting one. Perhaps there's one out there I haven't thought up yet, but none has been presented.
 
#19
Look at the rate of men who die in the workplace compared to that of women, even .
Look at the rate of which of these jobs could have safer, kinder and gentler alternatives:




Snake Milkers
Underwater Welder
Prostitutes
Oil Riggers
Steel Workers
Crab Fisherman
Bush Pilots
Microchip Manufacturers
Loggers
Bull Riders



RESEARCH HOW UNSUSTAINABLE a lot of these JOBS ARE, how they appeal to Adrenaline addicts, AND all the Alternative KINDER, GENTLER, Safer methods good for the Environment for BETTER PRODUCTIVITY AND HUMAN HEALTH! its ALL insane EXPLOITATION! Its ITS ALL PARASITISM !
 
Last edited:
Nov 2015
145
Canada
#20
I'm sorry but YOUR POINT DOES NOT become more valid WHEN YOU TYPE IT like this. It just makes you sound EDGY!

Also I'd love to hear your response to what Walrus asked.
Walrus said:
But in the ancient era, where there are going to be more men that die than women, what is your alternate solution?? I'm still awaiting one.
 
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