Possession by presumed evil

Nov 2019
12
Wales, UK
Hello Everyone,

Bit of a strange question i guess. But i have experience of people being possessed
By dark (absorbs light) criminal (bad intentions) energetic presences and saying
And doing negative things.

I ask the possessed people if they remember saying such things to me like
"I will batter your desire to do good out of you" and the claim to remember
The conversation right up to the moment i perceive them as possessed.

Now i have tried to be logical turning to psychology ideas, perhaps people
Have different parts of their personality that they aren't aware of usually.
But i don't really get psychology either to be honest.

I feel really bad about the situation because i feel like i should take action
With regards to these possessing telepathic beings, but striving to be
A good person and the Bahai suggestion not to pursue psychic phenomena...

What should i be doing? And how should i understand what iam seeing?
Obviously if people could point me towards scripture and the books
They are in so i can investigate the truth this would be very appreciated.appreciate

Obviously a lot of people will just think I'm crazy i guess, but that does not
Actually help me to understand the spirit world. I see a lot of information
Online about Angels, evil spirits, entities, spiritual warfare. . . Etc.

Although it has been incredible to bear witness to this reality, i haven't
Actually intentionally tried to pursue this, as it is not suggested by the faith.
But when i started praying to God this aspect of life just opened up
Accidentally??? Or is it just a side effect of pursuing a relationship
With God? Am i supposed to live on earth with no awareness of
Such things?

Also i wondered if what we do within the spirit world has any bearing
On planet earth, because in pursuing recovery from being upset about
Certain matters, i don't know if spirits were listening to what i was
Thinking and some kind of spiritual warfare took place? Do you think
God would allow me to process my hurt feelings in private on my own?
I'm a bit worried that i might have accidentally done magic etc.
If i had accidentally engaged in some kind of spiritual warfare do
You think God forgives this?

To be clear i have never purposefully done magic like candles and
Rituals etc, i just believed that you were supposed to process
Your reactions to evil by being aware of your thoughts and feelings
And letting them go, so that you can return to peace. But...
I obviously had unseen company, I'm worried that i might have
Retaliated.... But the spirit world doesn't actually listen to my
Private rant and go off and retaliate??? Does it?

The Baha'i scripture talks of the Concourse on High forming ranks
To protect you and wiping out evil on your behalf? So... It's ok
And part of Good eradicating the darkness?

To be honest with you i make a lot of effort to meet bad with good,
But i probably still need to process my reactions in private on
Occasion, still being susceptible to feeling hurt and occasionally
Angry when treated badly. Perhaps I'm not supposed to be nice
To bad? I see a lot of people reacting with immediate anger
To protect themselves from bad treatment. But i just don't
Want to be human I want to be of Good character of God and
Respond to it with Grace. Are Baha'is at risk of being a doormat?
I literally have one year old babies calling me stupid for letting
Them win a simple card game :/ even babies think I'm stupid
For my niceness!?

So what should i do about people possessed by external telepathic
Evil? I wasn't quite sure what the guardian meant when he said
Possessing evil spirits don't exist, but evil and dark forces can yield
To temptation???

So people ARE being possessed by evil.... ?

Is that external to the person? ??

Are they consenting to being possessed by external evil or are they victims?
What should i do to protect them?

If we are talking about their lower nature(satan) why deny memory of
Doing things? Obviously a lot of people lie when they are bad, but i do
Trust some people who say they have no memory of saying things
Doing things. So if it is their lower nature do i hold them accountable
Regardless? How do you do this if they can't remember their deeds?
What approach do other Baha'is take?

Sorry guys I'm a slow learner! I probably should have known all these
Answers a long time ago.

Any scripture and help greatly appreciated.

Please try to keep the crazy comments to a minimum!
 
Sep 2010
4,589
Normanton, Far North West Queensland
Hi a big welcome to you 🙏😃

Hope you are well and happy. Now let's read your post...

Regards Tony
 
Sep 2010
4,589
Normanton, Far North West Queensland
There is a heck of a lot of questions. Maybe a link to read may be best?

This is a good article;


This one also;


Regards Tony
 
  • Like
Reactions: daniel
Nov 2019
12
Wales, UK
Thanks so much for replying to my questions, i need to read a few times to really take in the meanings, but in the mean time, does this mean that you think the Faith would suggest it is the lower self expressing itself through the people i know?

So i should hold the people around me responsible for their actions?

I just have zero idea why someone usually ok, would suddenly come out with "I
Will batter your desire to do good out of you" i mean weird??? And they can't
Remember that?

Find it a bit depressing that everyone i know has been possessed by their
Lower nature if that's the case....
 
Sep 2010
4,589
Normanton, Far North West Queensland
Thanks so much for replying to my questions, i need to read a few times to really take in the meanings, but in the mean time, does this mean that you think the Faith would suggest it is the lower self expressing itself through the people i know?

So i should hold the people around me responsible for their actions?

I just have zero idea why someone usually ok, would suddenly come out with "I
Will batter your desire to do good out of you" i mean weird??? And they can't
Remember that?

Find it a bit depressing that everyone i know has been possessed by their
Lower nature if that's the case....
Good to see you back.

I see there is more to the existence than we consider, in the Baha'i writings it tell us that Soul, spirit and mind is not part of the body.

Thus how we use our connection of mind to spirit, to me has an external influence on other people and this creation.

Thus I currently see that our attachment of mind to worldly and material things, does have influence on all others that are also in tune with that way of thinking.

We are told as Baha'i only to look for the good in each other. I see that is the only way to help any other person. Always look for God (the good) in them and not look at their attachments to the world.

Regards Tony
 
Jun 2014
1,096
Wisconsin
Hello Everyone,

Bit of a strange question i guess. But i have experience of people being possessed
By dark (absorbs light) criminal (bad intentions) energetic presences and saying
And doing negative things.

I ask the possessed people if they remember saying such things to me like
"I will batter your desire to do good out of you" and the claim to remember
The conversation right up to the moment i perceive them as possessed.

Now i have tried to be logical turning to psychology ideas, perhaps people
Have different parts of their personality that they aren't aware of usually.
But i don't really get psychology either to be honest.

I feel really bad about the situation because i feel like i should take action
With regards to these possessing telepathic beings, but striving to be
A good person and the Bahai suggestion not to pursue psychic phenomena...

What should i be doing? And how should i understand what iam seeing?
Obviously if people could point me towards scripture and the books
They are in so i can investigate the truth this would be very appreciated.appreciate

Obviously a lot of people will just think I'm crazy i guess, but that does not
Actually help me to understand the spirit world. I see a lot of information
Online about Angels, evil spirits, entities, spiritual warfare. . . Etc.

Although it has been incredible to bear witness to this reality, i haven't
Actually intentionally tried to pursue this, as it is not suggested by the faith.
But when i started praying to God this aspect of life just opened up
Accidentally??? Or is it just a side effect of pursuing a relationship
With God? Am i supposed to live on earth with no awareness of
Such things?

Also i wondered if what we do within the spirit world has any bearing
On planet earth, because in pursuing recovery from being upset about
Certain matters, i don't know if spirits were listening to what i was
Thinking and some kind of spiritual warfare took place? Do you think
God would allow me to process my hurt feelings in private on my own?
I'm a bit worried that i might have accidentally done magic etc.
If i had accidentally engaged in some kind of spiritual warfare do
You think God forgives this?

To be clear i have never purposefully done magic like candles and
Rituals etc, i just believed that you were supposed to process
Your reactions to evil by being aware of your thoughts and feelings
And letting them go, so that you can return to peace. But...
I obviously had unseen company, I'm worried that i might have
Retaliated.... But the spirit world doesn't actually listen to my
Private rant and go off and retaliate??? Does it?

The Baha'i scripture talks of the Concourse on High forming ranks
To protect you and wiping out evil on your behalf? So... It's ok
And part of Good eradicating the darkness?

To be honest with you i make a lot of effort to meet bad with good,
But i probably still need to process my reactions in private on
Occasion, still being susceptible to feeling hurt and occasionally
Angry when treated badly. Perhaps I'm not supposed to be nice
To bad? I see a lot of people reacting with immediate anger
To protect themselves from bad treatment. But i just don't
Want to be human I want to be of Good character of God and
Respond to it with Grace. Are Baha'is at risk of being a doormat?
I literally have one year old babies calling me stupid for letting
Them win a simple card game :/ even babies think I'm stupid
For my niceness!?

So what should i do about people possessed by external telepathic
Evil? I wasn't quite sure what the guardian meant when he said
Possessing evil spirits don't exist, but evil and dark forces can yield
To temptation???

So people ARE being possessed by evil.... ?

Is that external to the person? ??

Are they consenting to being possessed by external evil or are they victims?
What should i do to protect them?

If we are talking about their lower nature(satan) why deny memory of
Doing things? Obviously a lot of people lie when they are bad, but i do
Trust some people who say they have no memory of saying things
Doing things. So if it is their lower nature do i hold them accountable
Regardless? How do you do this if they can't remember their deeds?
What approach do other Baha'is take?

Sorry guys I'm a slow learner! I probably should have known all these
Answers a long time ago.

Any scripture and help greatly appreciated.

Please try to keep the crazy comments to a minimum!
As you mention, the Baha'i Faith expresses that demons are symbols of mankind's lower nature. The Jungian school of psychology has a similar view, referring to that part of the person as the shadow self. In both systems, possession is thus understood as psychological, at least in part. It thus might be of benefit to seek advice from a psychologist.

If we are talking about their lower nature(satan) why deny memory of
Doing things? Obviously a lot of people lie when they are bad, but i do
Trust some people who say they have no memory of saying things
Doing things. So if it is their lower nature do i hold them accountable
Regardless? How do you do this if they can't remember their deeds?
What approach do other Baha'is take?
There might be a number of explanations for which someone would deny memory of saying such a thing. They might remember, but be ashamed of their words, and thus lie to deny that. They might also remember, but are lying to themselves. They might genuinely not remember, either from simply forgetting, or from them not being lucid in the moment they were saying them.

But there might be another thing to consider. It is unlikely that a large number of people are either lying or can't remember, and you seem to indicate that you've seen similar possession incidents in more than one person. This would lead me to ask two things, the first being how many people have you seen with such an experience, and second, more importantly, do they all say similar things to you??

If there is a large number of people each saying similar things when under this sort of possession, and each deny memory of the event afterward, then it may be likely that the explanation may be that they say they have no memory of the event because they genuinely have no memory of the event because they never actually spoke those words. It may be that you are the one who is, in your terms, possessed. And the things you are hearing may not be things that other people are saying to you, but rather are the things that your own lower nature or shadow self is saying to you, presenting those statements to you through your perception of others.

From what you say about your own struggle with doing the right thing in other scenarios, as well as your mention of thinking that you might have experienced spiritual warfare, this would lend credence to the idea that what you are experience is localized to yourself, rather than the people around you.

If this is the case, you may want to seek council from a psychologist who might be able to gain more insight into the nature of your possession.

Again, if this is the case, I'd also advise to paying attention to what the possessive force is saying to you. From the one example you have provided, "I will batter your desire to do good out of you", this seems to me like your shadow self trying to turn you away from being righteous. This is similar to Jesus who was confronted by the devil when wandering in the wilderness, or Gautama Buddha who was confronted by the devil when meditating under the Bodhi Tree. In the Baha'i context we recognize these incidents as when these prophets were confronted by their own lesser nature which tried to turn them away from righteousness, similar to how what you've encountered seems to be trying to turn you away from righteousness, threatening to "batter your desire to do good out of you."

Both Jesus and Gautama Buddha were undergoing periods of fasting, prayer, and meditation at the time that their lower natures manifested themselves, and we know that fasting, prayer, and meditation has interesting effects on one's psychology. You may want to consider meditation or similar practices so that you can confront your own lesser nature. If it manifests again, you might want to try listening to it, hearing out what it has to say, and then rejecting what it says, in a manner similar to how Jesus or Gautama Buddha rejected their own lower natures.

I feel really bad about the situation because i feel like i should take action
With regards to these possessing telepathic beings, but striving to be
A good person and the Bahai suggestion not to pursue psychic phenomena...

What should i be doing? And how should i understand what iam seeing?
Obviously if people could point me towards scripture and the books
They are in so i can investigate the truth this would be very appreciated.appreciate

Obviously a lot of people will just think I'm crazy i guess, but that does not
Actually help me to understand the spirit world. I see a lot of information
Online about Angels, evil spirits, entities, spiritual warfare. . . Etc.

Although it has been incredible to bear witness to this reality, i haven't
Actually intentionally tried to pursue this, as it is not suggested by the faith.
But when i started praying to God this aspect of life just opened up
Accidentally??? Or is it just a side effect of pursuing a relationship
With God? Am i supposed to live on earth with no awareness of
Such things?

Also i wondered if what we do within the spirit world has any bearing
On planet earth, because in pursuing recovery from being upset about
Certain matters, i don't know if spirits were listening to what i was
Thinking and some kind of spiritual warfare took place? Do you think
God would allow me to process my hurt feelings in private on my own?
I'm a bit worried that i might have accidentally done magic etc.
If i had accidentally engaged in some kind of spiritual warfare do
You think God forgives this?

To be clear i have never purposefully done magic like candles and
Rituals etc, i just believed that you were supposed to process
Your reactions to evil by being aware of your thoughts and feelings
And letting them go, so that you can return to peace. But...
I obviously had unseen company, I'm worried that i might have
Retaliated.... But the spirit world doesn't actually listen to my
Private rant and go off and retaliate??? Does it?

The Baha'i scripture talks of the Concourse on High forming ranks
To protect you and wiping out evil on your behalf? So... It's ok
And part of Good eradicating the darkness?
On the subject of spiritual warfare and magic:

First, don't worry too much on the idea of "accidentally doing magic". Baha'is are discouraged from trying to cultivate "psychic forces", but this is not a prohibition on all things that could be called "magic". From the context around the writings prohibiting the cultivation of psychic powers, 'Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi appear to be talking about the power to predict the future in specific. But this does not mean other "magical" practices are forbidden.

In fact magic talismans that ward against evil are indeed a doctrinal part of Baha'i theology, known as haykal talismans (haykal translating to both temple and body). Unfortunately the exact method of creating a haykal talisman, which the Bab wrote about extensively, is not translated into English as of this time :/ . Though Baha'u'llah has also mentioned that the most powerful haykal talisman is the human body itself. My guess would be that this means we as humans already have the power over demonic forces (since those forces are lower parts of ourselves, hence why the human body is the post powerful talisman) and a written talisman serves as a symbolic reminder of that fact that the demon has no power over us, since the demon is us.

On the topic of spiritual warfare, it is a very powerful symbolic force that helps us overcome our lower nature. Understanding our own inner struggle as an external struggle is something overwhelmingly common in human spirituality, so much so that the understanding of it is probably ingrained into our very psychology. Both Sufi Mystics and Jungian psychologists teach that common tropes in human stories, like a hero slaying a dragon or a monster, are humans subconsciously expressing our inner struggle through external storytelling.

That is why we are told through Muhammad of both the Lesser Jihad, the struggle against evil in the world, and the Greater Jihad, the struggle against evil inside us: the outer form of the struggle is the symbolic expression of the inner. The concept of the Greater Jihad as given to us by the prophets is the very concept of spiritual warfare itself. So spiritual warfare is not prohibited by Scripture, in fact it is mandated. And so if the concept of spiritual warfare helps you to understand your own struggle with your lower self, I'd say use it. It's a powerful symbol and can aid you in the Greater Jihad.

In summation, if it is indeed you and not those around you that is having problems with a demon, then a psychologist and also meditation, fasting, and prayer may help to understand the nature of this demon, your lower self. Understanding of it then helps in the internal jihad against it.

If, however, it is others struggling with possession and not yourself, which based on what you have wrote so far seems to me like the less likely possibility, then they would need to be the ones to overcome their own inner shadow self.
 
Nov 2019
12
Wales, UK
You say the Faith believes in magic, i was of the understanding that magic involves talking to spirits and trying to get them to do your bidding. If that were correct
Then people being possessed by external evil spirits would be possible.

Please explain what the Faith uses in terms of magic
 

ams

Nov 2019
51
Thailand
Hello @Independent Investigation
Bit of a strange question i guess. But i have experience of people being possessed
By dark (absorbs light) criminal (bad intentions) energetic presences and saying
And doing negative things.

Please note that the following may not 100% compatible with the Bahai View about dark spirits,
But it is in no way my intention to speak against it.

It is just my personal view, based not only of deep studying the issue of dark spirits, but also of some experiences.

...

Yes, external dark spirits exists
(however one may name them... daemons, evil spirit, unclean spirits, jinns, spirit of mara, dark forces, black entities, etc...)

and those spirits are able to influence, even possessing people. (through "open doors" in their soul)


Based on what you have wrote about the person you referer...

it could be quite possible, that he is possessed by such external dark spirits.

Because the behavior you shortly described would be very typical.


So, if it's the case of dark spirits, classical psychology and medicine would not be enough the deal with it.
(because in most cases they deny the existence of dark spirits)

Then you, respectively the person... need an (real) expert in this area who can help.

Please note that... if... you must carefully look for an real expert.

His heart must be pure and attached to God.... he must be a real healer.
You must follow your inner sense to choose wisely.

He would then be able to diagnose the case... and explaining what can be done.

Normally the way is: Firstly, removing the dark spirits. That the person is free of them.

And after that (very important) to help the person closing his open doors through which the dark spirits came in.

From here on, classical psychology could be then very helpful... because that is then an pure inner psychological work.


If not closing the open doors... the dark spirits could come in anytime again.

The person your referrer must also be willing for it. If not, helping he would difficult even impossible.


Maybe you can find something in this... for you and/or the person you referer.

i wish you and the person all the Best.
 
Last edited:
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