Reincarnation

Jul 2018
101
Tarshish, bound for Nineveh
There is reincarnation in one sense (although in our faith we call it "return") and I feel it is somewhat consistent with the relationship between karma and reincarnation, as I understand them, as well as the teachings of the Bahai faith.

When individuals and societies live materialistic and wicked lives, these qualities and attributes are perpetuated in the future generations (reincarnation/ return of qualities), and even increase over time, leading to regression into baser and less heavenly forms. When individuals and societies turn away from materialism and wickedness, however, then the reincarnation/return of these negative qualities diminish and the society and individuals progress ie their qualities and attributes reincarnate/return at a higher level, and this progress will continue onward until Nirvana, ie attaining to the presence, or the Kingdom of God.

Cheers
 
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Aug 2019
73
Berlin
Very good idea, Luqman. As I understand, you see it more on the level of cultural progress than a metaphysical conception. I like it, it's one of the best transmissions on this subject I've heard so far. Thank you for sharing.
 
Jul 2018
101
Tarshish, bound for Nineveh
Very good idea, Luqman. As I understand, you see it more on the level of cultural progress than a metaphysical conception. I like it, it's one of the best transmissions on this subject I've heard so far. Thank you for sharing.
Certitude,

I take this idea from the Bahai teachings on return. For example, the return of Christ, the return of Imam Hussein, the return of Elijah, Fatimah, Ali, etc, etc, all returned during the time of the Bab and Baha'ullah, as you will discover in the writings (especially those of the Bab). It would be easy to misunderstand such writings literally, and then conclude that at least in those cases, Bahais believe in reincarnation. However, we understand (as the Bab and Baha'u'llah have clearly explained) that by all of these returns it is not intended that the personalities or souls, but rather, attributes, characteristics, and spirit. It is from this that I extrapolate a hypothesis of how one could rethink reincarnation in such a way that is compatible with the Bahai writings even though it obviously differs from what people who believe in reincarnation mean when they talk about it. Naturally, reincarnation as it is commonly believed, is not compatible with Bahai teachings.

I am glad you like the idea.

Cheers
 
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Aug 2019
73
Berlin
I like this explanation because I've asked myself many times: If the attributes or qualities of the Word of God return in the manifestations, why shouldn't this principle also apply to other people?
It reminds me somewhat of the Buddhist idea of reincarnation. Or rather, a cultural interpretation of the idea of reincarnation as advocated by Buddhists.
When certain qualities reincarnate, certain personalities will return. Just as you described it: If the materialistic way of life becomes strong, then materialistic structures will remain in society and the consequence will be that materialistic people will develop.It is also a good explanation of how the idea of reincarnation can contribute to the positive development of society. When we talk about how the manifestations were meant to advance society, we wonder how the idea of reincarnation, which is exclusively spiritual, can contribute. Your explanation offers a good approach.
What I like about the Bahai way of thinking is that theology is very rational at its core. I also think of the manifestations: All people have different qualities of God, they are precious stones. But if you recognize a person who has the qualities of God to the maximum extent that he is closer to God than the other people, then you can recognize a manifestation of God.
In this sense I like the conclusions you have drawn from the Bahai scriptures in the question of reincarnation. It is very clear and rationally accessible and it is consistent with the scriptures.
 
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Oct 2019
33
Vrindavan
The subject seems to occupy the minds. I would note that Indian philosophy knows Santana-dharma, man's eternal connection to God. But a relationship of the soul to God can only be eternal if this soul was not created and cannot die, is not transient.

How the Vedic religion has established itself on the subcontinent India is today difficult to discern from the official research. The earlier researches of Indology were often marked by colonial considerations, later the counter-movements came from Hindu nationalism. Both camps do not come to a common denominator and therefore it is difficult to get a balanced picture of Indian history.

I am not a big fan of myths, but I think that it does justice to the scientific claim to speak of a secured tradition from the beginning of writing in India, so from 300 B.C. Therefore also speculations that reincarnation is not to be found in the early Vedic writings are obsolete, since it refers to the oral area of tradition. Since the beginning of Scripture, we have had a clear and comprehensible tradition, including faith in rebirth.
 

ams

Nov 2019
53
Thailand
Personaly, i belive in the concept of reincarnation.

Means:
We are spirtual beings - pure Consciousness - able to manifest as a human being... in a body... in "the world"... for learning purpose.

If our body dies, and if it serves our way to god.... then we can incarnate again... as a human being.


As far as i understand the Baha'i movement... their belive is at least similar.

Even if reincarnation not happens... as a human again on earth... but "the journey" will not stop after death.

Karma is also in effect. Be it on earth again, or wherever else after death.

So the "base principal" is the same. Or did i miss something?

Greetings
 
Nov 2019
45
Hamburg
This "we are in a body" is often a basis of the problem.
If we are only in a body, then what were we before? Are we not our body? Don't we need our body then? Hinduism believes we are the soul. Materialists believe we are the body. I think we are body and soul. A unity that contains different parts but is more than the sum of the parts.
From the thought that we are only the soul, Hinduism deduces the assumption that we existed before our bodies and already eternal times before our material existence. But this raises the question of what we were before the earth was created and under what conditions we could build karma at a time when there was no material world in which humans or animals lived. There must also be a first creation of the living being, not the soul in this sense, but the first moment when a soul got a body. According to what criteria does God create bodies?
When we say "we are" it is a self-perception of our entire identity, including the physical, sexual experience. There is no indication that a person without a body can be self-conscious, because there is no self-conscious person without a body.
Our soul is not really eternal, but it is created by God at our birth and is immortal from that moment on. Some people say that this is an error, because what was created can also pass away. But this only concerns things that are created by the biological, natural cycles.
There are two ways to prove reincarnation, both are flawed. The natural derivation, which observes a constant cyclic event and derives from it that the soul also returns, is not comprehensible, because in nature we observe a becoming and passing, but no return of the same. A leaf that passes does not return. There comes another leaf. God himself has also never taught reincarnation, the Hindus who believe in reincarnation say themselves that they do not know where their writings come from.

Greets...
 
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Feb 2019
220
Chicago
A leaf that passes does not return. There comes another leaf.

Greets...
How did you do on your middle school biology class. A leaf that falls to the ground get decomposed and becomes part of the soil from which it originally came. The tree then absorbs the elements of the soil and creates another leaf. So the elements of the leaf are constantly recycled. It is a smaller cycle in the bigger cycle of the tree itself getting recycled when it dies. Every process that God created is cyclic. Please use your powers of observation and independently investigate the truth like Bahaullah taught instead of parroting Effendi's ignorance.
 
Feb 2019
220
Chicago
Interesting discussion.
I would add something. The Bhagavad-Gita was spoken 5000 years before, but it was written down in the year 400-500 B.C. You can believe that from the revelation of the battlefield of Kurukshetra in the year 3000 B.C. to the scripture that was written down in the year 500 B.C. nothing has altered, but it's only a believe.
The Bhagavad-Gita was written down about 5000 years ago, not around 500 BC as you say. Your speculation is not independent investigation of truth. The only way you can verify the truths in the Bhagavad-Gita is to meditate upon them and realize them within your own being. To understand the words of prophets, it is not reason, emotion and imagination that is required but intuitive calmness born of deep meditation. The bias and ignorance you display towards Hinduism is quite common among non-Hindus and it does not help promote any kind of brotherhood that the Bahai faith aims to.
 
Aug 2019
73
Berlin
How can you write something down without scripture? That is totally nonsense. I think you should check your resources and stop repeating Hindu myths.