Reincarnation

Oct 2019
57
Vrindavan
@Venu

Why are you talking about them in that way? Did they hurt your ego ? Certitude pointed out to you a scientifically incorrect statement. Your appearance here doesn't correspond to good handling and you don't need to use psychological tricks and try to show solidarity with me against people who contradict your mistakes. It looks like, that your agenda is from Hindu nationalism. Hindu nationalism fight against scientific facts about Indian history to create myths about own history. It is similiar to the German nationalist strategy that creates the myths of the Aryan race and their history in order to overstate one's own nation and culture.
 
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Oct 2019
57
Vrindavan
Independently of the Nation, Culture and even Religion... Truth is revealed.
There is no faith independently of nation or culture. Take a look at Indian history. On the one hand it was shaped by the colonialist phase, during which partly incorrect pictures were drawn about India. Nowadays there is the counter-movement of Hindu nationalism, which creates some myths to elevate Indian culture and present it as superior. These people also try to run their political agenda on the internet, as you can see here.

Both sides don't come together because it's politics and not Truth. They have no real interest in scientific research and try to present faith truths as objective facts.

That is, in my view, the important point. What you describe is an inner truth, an object in your own consciousness that has opened up to your own mind. But it is only a subjective reality. Without question, this inner truth is significant, especially for understanding the common reality behind all religious phenomena. This is exactly what distinguishes it from the political-cultural agenda, which tries not to recognize unity but to form fronts.

As it has happened here, freely according to the motto: "If you do not believe in reincarnation and do not agree with the Indian myths, then you do not search for unity and truth". It is good to be vigilant. Some people try to instrumentalize the search for Truth.
 

ams

Nov 2019
88
Thailand
Hi @Siddhanta108 and thank you for your posting... i was reading it with much interest.

As i mentioned i know not too much about the India- and Hindu- history... just some Basics.

What you describe is an inner truth, an object in your own consciousness that has opened up to your own mind. But it is only a subjective reality. Without question, this inner truth is significant, especially for understanding the common reality behind all religious phenomena.
Yes, this is also my view. Good description. :yes:

i have deep respect for Master Abdul-Baha' ... no matter if He rejected Reincarnation or not... in which i personaly believe.

However... as i understand Reincarnation... it says that we can incarnate again if necessary or even if it is required (for ie. karmic reasons).

Bahai Teachings says: If one was not fully able "to reach God" in this lifetime... he will get further options after-life.

Or: If one did much bad to others in this lifetime (= Bad Karma)... this will effect his life after this life.

Isn't this the common and also the important Point?
 
Oct 2019
57
Vrindavan
As i mentioned i know not too much about the India- and Hindu- history... just some Basics.
I don't think that's important either. In the end, you notice where it's about division and profiling your own truth. It is also not important for many Hindus who do not want to search for the truth, but simply accept the whole package. These things are not relevant for a godly life.

Isn't this the common and also the important Point?
It's always the question of what's important.

Irrespective of whether a person believes in reincarnation or not, he is basically faced with the same questions in life. Birth, illness, death. The suffering.
From my humble point of view, I would say that a model that does not start from reincarnation has its focus exclusively on this life. While someone who believes in reincarnation still has a view of the processes beyond life, in a more concrete form than e.g. the Abrahamitic religions.

But if someone steals from his neighbour or is caught in consumer terror, then it is completely irrelevant whether he believes in reincarnation or not. It doesn't matter which religion someone formally follows, if there is no consequence for his life. Sometimes too many concepts and theories are not good either. Some simple Christians who don't think so much about the cycles of the universe may be a more godly person than the intellectual high-flyer who can enumerate 1000 Hindu god names for you.

That Baha'i believe in reincarnation doesn't seem to be so to me, from my outside viewpoint. But very well there is the principle in relation to the manifestations of God. But not for all people. But certainly there are passages in the extensive works of Baha'u'llah that can be interpreted this way.

The question of whether someone believes in reincarnation has no meaning in this respect, because it does not clarify the form in which he believes in reincarnation. In India, too, the various schools have their own concepts and ideas. God does not seem to have a fundamental problem with this, which is why the topic does not seem to be so relevant in the end.

In the end it is relevant how far you can push your own ego back and serve God, which includes serving your fellow human beings.
 
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Aug 2019
86
Berlin
A good example is your assertion earlier in this thread that Vedas do not mention reincarnation and I proved you wrong by quoting the appropriate Vedic verses. You are again making a grand display of your ignorance of Indian history.
Yes, you have chosen one translation that supports your interpretation. In fact, it was about ancestor worship and spirits and has little to do with reincarnation as it was later believed. By the way, you stand against the scientific consensus with your assertion that there had already been the thought of reincarnation in the original Vedas. Your repetition of "ignorance" against your interlocutors, if they don't want to follow your myths, is as superfluous as the belief in a spaghetti monster above the clouds. Siddhanta seems to have exposed your political mission here.
 
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ams

Nov 2019
88
Thailand
Hi @certitude and @Venu

What cames in my mind when i reading your "direct and polite" :halo: Dialogue ... is...

that it reminds me somehow... to some Dialogues of myself with some (not all) representatives of the roman catholic church.

But then... if i get luckily reminded of one of the very core teaching of Master ‘Abdu’l-Bahá ... then i would come to my self again.

Knowing, that it is not the spirit of Christ... which drives me in... to such kind of Dialogue.


... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
Religion should unite all hearts and cause wars and disputes to vanish from the face of the earth;

It should give birth to spirituality, and bring light and life to every soul.

If religion becomes a cause of dislike, hatred and division it would be better to be without it...

For it is clear that the purpose of a remedy is to cure, but if the remedy only aggravates the complaint, it had better be left alone.

Any religion which is not a cause of love and unity is no religion.

(Abdu’l-Bahá, Paris)
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...


This very divinely inspired Words always have then much power... to attach my mind in the Spirit of Christ again.
 
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Feb 2019
251
Chicago
@Venu

Why are you talking about them in that way? Did they hurt your ego ? Certitude pointed out to you a scientifically incorrect statement. Your appearance here doesn't correspond to good handling and you don't need to use psychological tricks and try to show solidarity with me against people who contradict your mistakes. It looks like, that your agenda is from Hindu nationalism. Hindu nationalism fight against scientific facts about Indian history to create myths about own history. It is similiar to the German nationalist strategy that creates the myths of the Aryan race and their history in order to overstate one's own nation and culture.
If my agenda is from Hindu nationalism, it is not clear why you liked my post #121. Since you liked it, I was merely responding to you. I have no need to express solidarity with your agenda for I don't know you and this is our first interaction. Nothing I said about the Gita is factually incorrect. Recent archeological excavations at sea and carbon dating have shown that Dwaraka the city of Lord Krishna definitely existed about 5000 years ago. Branding me a Hindu nationalist and liking my posts is like trying to square a circle. Quite funny.
 
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Feb 2019
251
Chicago
Yes, you have chosen one translation that supports your interpretation. In fact, it was about ancestor worship and spirits and has little to do with reincarnation as it was later believed. By the way, you stand against the scientific consensus with your assertion that there had already been the thought of reincarnation in the original Vedas. Your repetition of "ignorance" against your interlocutors, if they don't want to follow your myths, is as superfluous as the belief in a spaghetti monster above the clouds. Siddhanta seems to have exposed your political mission here.
Scriptures are translated differently by different people. Why should everyone accept your translation of the scripture. By your admission earlier, your German translation was questionable and you thanked me for correcting your mistake but now you seem to wiggle out of it since I am pointing out more of your inaccurate statements about India. Branding Hindu scriptures as myths, corrupted, unscientific without personal study and practice as you have done here smacks of religious ego and runs contrary to Bahaullah's teaching to independently investigate the truth. The hypocrisy is quite obvious and you make a mockery of Bahaullah's fundamental approach to truth. There is no evidence to suggest that I have promoted any political agenda here. I am just a truth seeker and in matters of spirituality, the scriptural truths can only be verified within our own consciousness. For example in the Hidden Words, God speaking through Bahaullah says that if you clean your heart, He will descend in to it. You can verify the truth of that assertion in your own consciousness but it cannot be scientifically proven in a laboratory. And that's the point I am making about the Gita. If you meditate upon the truths in Gita you will realize them in your consciousness. There are so many well known non-Hindus who have done that and testified to their experience of the Gita. That's not Hindu nationalism or political agenda but universal spirituality. What you have done is merely speculate and dismiss Gita as a corrupt and unreliable scripture without proper study or practice of it's teachings. How is that called independent investigation of truth?


Henry David Thoreau wrote "In the morning I bathe my intellect in the stupendous and cosmogonal philosophy of the Bhagavad Gita in comparison with which our modern world and its literature seem puny and trivial.

Ralph Waldo Emerson said this about the Bhagavad Gita: "I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavad-Gita. It was as if an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy, but large, serene, consistent,the voice of an old intelligence which in another age and climate had pondered and thus disposed of the same questions which exercise us.
 
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Aug 2019
86
Berlin
It's a little bit funny what you call "inaccurate statements about India" here is the current state of research in indology, historical and religious studies. I have nothing more to say. Every participant here can check the scientific facts and then see how he has to assess your statements, that is what means "independent investigation of truth".
 
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Feb 2019
251
Chicago
It's a little bit funny what you call "inaccurate statements about India" here is the current state of research in indology, historical and religious studies. I have nothing more to say. Every participant here can check the scientific facts and then see how he has to assess your statements, that is what means "independent investigation of truth".
What have you done to independently investigate the spiritual truths in the Gita. Have you studied the Gita, have you meditated and practiced it's teachings and were you able to disprove them in your life? If you haven't done that, you cannot claim that you have independently investigated the truth because esoteric spiritual truths can only be proven and realized in your own consciousness. How are Westerners and non-Hindus I quoted able to testify about Gita but you dismiss it as a myth and corrupt scripture. It is because they have verified the truth and you haven't due to your bias against non-Bahai religions.