Reincarnation

Feb 2019
197
Chicago
#61
Some years before I met a farmer with his family. A nice man. He was very simple. He couldn't give me any logical reasons or concepts for his art of living. But this was not important, because I could feel his deep devotional relationship with God. And he was near to God than people who fight in the internet with the argumentation "My religions gives me better logical concepts, because of this my religion is better, more of knowledge" and such Maya stuff. The original topic was reincarnation, but now you try to explain, what other religions missing or not to declare, Hinduism gives you the better answers? Fine, that is good for you, but the absolute reality doesn't depend from the capacity of your logical understanding. Our soul and the absolute is beyond our logical concepts; and to fulfill the needs of our mind has nothing to do with the relationship to God -- that is one experience that I made after many years of meditation. It seems, that you left the idea of Sanatana-dharma.I wish you the best Venu :)
I respond to each person differently based on how I experience their thoughts and emotions. Trailblazer has a history of putting down other religions and holding up the Bahai faith as the latest and greatest. You don't have to judge me based on my responses to Trailblazer alone. I am happy to discuss reincarnation with anyone in a logical and sensible way. Just look at my discussion with Jcc. I find Trailblazer completely illogical and egotistic.
 
Feb 2019
197
Chicago
#62
If you can experience the absolute reality, then it is clear that a person who don't believe that someone can make a experience of the absolute reality despite can make an experience of the absolute reality - it depends not of your believe. But if you cannot experience the absolute reality, then you can believe that the experience of something that is in your mind is the absolute reality, but in this case you are falling in illusion.
I am sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say because your English is not grammatically correct. Please try again.

The absolute or the divine can be experienced by meditation (e.g.), which is part of the daily practice of Bahai believers, but it is far beyond rational/intellectual description.
Trailblazer does not meditate. I know that from past discussions. All she does is copy and paste from Bahai publications and she cannot explain what she posts because she never tried to meditate and grasp the esoteric truths underlying the teachings.


I am little bit surprised about such a statement. I read in the introduction that you are from a Hindu background with some interest in the Bahai religion. But if you have only a little bit interest in the Bahai religion then you should know, that blind belief and "repeat stuff from others" is far away from everything that the Bahai religion teaches.
With Trailblazer, there is no independent investigation of truth that Bahaullah wanted of his followers. All I hear from her is that she believes in something. Who knows if her beliefs are right or wrong.

If I remember the Gita, then these people follow the lower moods of nature, which are a part of God, and because it's part of God, people who follow the materialistic energies are also followers of God. How can you explain that such a picture of God is merciful ?
God created man for love. He gave man the freedom to reject God because true love can only be born in complete freedom. However, God knew that man can misuse his freedom and make mistakes. To restore balance and maintain order in His creation, God created the law of karma which operates on the physical, mental and spiritual planes. You cannot even sit on a chair if the law of karma did not exist. When you sit on a chair, your body exerts a downward force on it while the chair exerts an upward force equal to your weight on the chair. If the upward force is not equal to your weight, you could either sink in to the chair or be thrown upwards in to the air. Hindus call this the law of karma while the Europeans called it Newton's third law of motion. The difference is that the Europeans recognized this law only on the physical plane but the Hindu avatars realized that it operates on the mental and spiritual planes as well. All events in human life are governed by the law of karma. This applies to the rape of Yazidi women as well. While I have no insight in to their past incarnations, I have enough knowledge of the middle east region to know that women have been captured as war booty and raped there for centuries. It is possible that the women being raped now were men in their past incarnations who raped women. I could be wrong and there may be other karmic reasons. Generally speaking, what goes around comes around. But the rape of women can never be justified because bad karma or bad action now is never a solution for bad karma or bad action from the past. Violence can never put an end to violence in a spiritual sense. If we have good karma, we should protect and help people that may be suffering from bad karma. So while the law of karma might explain the situation of Yazidi women, they need to be protected from the jihadis and that is the way of righteousness or dharma.
 
Last edited:
Aug 2019
21
Berlin
#63
I am sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say because your English is not grammatically correct. Please try again.
Ok, let me try it again:

There are two possibilities:

- The absolute reality can be experienced. Then everyone can experience this reality, it doesn't depend on whether someone believes. A person who doesn't believe that the Absolute can be experienced and a person who believes that the Absolute can be experienced – both can make this experience.

- The absolute reality cannot be experienced. Also in this case, it doesn't depend on whether someone believes. A person who believes that the Absolute can be experienced, can also make experiences. But the experiences he make are not experiences of the transcendence, but an experience of illusion that will be created in the mind.

From my personal experiences, we can experience the Absolute reality, but it is far beyond rational/intellectual description.

"When we turn to God with our whole heart and invoke His Name, a spiritual connection is established through which we become a channel of divine influence.“ - Shogi Effendi

„The Greatest Name should be found upon the lips in the first awaking moment of early dawn. It should be fed upon by constant use in daily invocation, in trouble, under opposition, and should be the last word breathed when the head rests upon the pillow at night. It is the name of comfort, protection, happiness, illumination, love and unity… The use of the Greatest Name and dependence upon it, cause the soul to strip itself of the husks of mortality and to step forth freed, reborn, and new creature…“ - `Abdu‘l Bahá

Trailblazer does not meditate.
Every Baha'i practice a mantra meditation every morning in the Greatest Name (Allah-u-Abha).

All she does is copy and paste from Bahai publications
Its the best way to go beyond the own philosophical speculations to quote the scriptures. I cannot see any mistake in that.
 
Likes: Trailblazer
Feb 2019
197
Chicago
#64
Ok, let me try it again:

There are two possibilities:

- The absolute reality can be experienced. Then everyone can experience this reality, it doesn't depend on whether someone believes. A person who doesn't believe that the Absolute can be experienced and a person who believes that the Absolute can be experienced – both can make this experience.

- The absolute reality cannot be experienced. Also in this case, it doesn't depend on whether someone believes. A person who believes that the Absolute can be experienced, can also make experiences. But the experiences he make are not experiences of the transcendence, but an experience of illusion that will be created in the mind.

From my personal experiences, we can experience the Absolute reality, but it is far beyond rational/intellectual description.

.
I can agree with that but how does that disprove reincarnation and law of karma? This is a discussion on karma and reincarnation which happen in the world of relativity while the Absolute reality is beyond the world of relativity.


Its the best way to go beyond the own philosophical speculations to quote the scriptures. I cannot see any mistake in that
Even a parrot can be trained to quote the scriptures. That does not help the parrot advance spiritually. It will still act like a parrot - not like a saint. Why dismiss anything you disagree with as philosophical speculations. Just until a few hours ago, you confidently stated that the Vedas had no references to reincarnation because you relied on the so called Indologist. There are many of them who tried to rewrite Hindu history and religious scriptures to fit in to a Biblical narrative of God's creation.

Here is a German Indologist:

"India has been conquered once, but India must be conquered again, and that second conquest should be a conquest by education" - Max Muller

“If I were to look over the whole world to find out the country most richly endowed with all the wealth, power, and beauty that nature can bestow—in some parts a very paradise on earth—I should point to India. If I were asked under what sky the human mind has most full developed some of its choicest gifts, has most deeply pondered on the greatest problems of life, and has found solutions of some of them which well deserve the attention even of those who have studied Plato and Kant—I should point to India. And if I were to ask myself from what literature we, here in Europe, we who have been nurtured almost exclusively on the thoughts of Greeks and Romans, and of one Semitic race, the Jewish, may draw that corrective which is most wanted in order to make our inner life more perfect, more comprehensive, more universal, in fact more truly human, a life, not for this life only, but a transfigured and eternal life—again I should point to India.”
― Friedrich Max Müller, India: What Can it Teach Us? A Course of Lectures Delivered before the University of Cambridge


But look at what scientific people have to say about Hinduism.

Hinduism, according to Carl Sagan, in his book, Cosmos:

"... is the only religion in which the time scales correspond... to those of modern scientific cosmology. Its cycles run from our ordinary day and night to a day and night of the Brahma, 8.64 billion years long, longer than the age of the Earth or the Sun and about half the time since the Big Bang"

Dick Teresi author and coauthor of several books about science and technology, including The God Particle. He is cofounder of Omni magazine and has written for Discover, The New York Times Magazine, and The Atlantic Monthly. He says

"Indian cosmologists, the first to estimate the age of the earth at more than 4 billion years. They came closest to modern ideas of atomism, quantum physics, and other current theories. India developed very early, enduring atomist theories of matter. Possibly Greek atomistic thought was influenced by India, via the Persian civilization."

The cycle of creation and destruction continues forever, manifested in the Hindu deity Shiva, Lord of the Dance, who holds the drum that sounds the universe’s creation in his right hand and the flame that, billions of years later, will destroy the universe in his left. Meanwhile Brahma is but one of untold numbers of other gods dreaming their own universes.

The 8.64 billion years that mark a full day-and-night cycle in Brahma’s life is about half the modern estimate for the age of the universe. The ancient Hindus believed that each Brahma day and each Brahma night lasted a kalpa, 4.32 billion years, with 72,000 kalpas equaling a Brahma century, 311,040 billion years in all. That the Hindus could conceive of the universe in terms of billions.

The similarities between Indian and modern cosmology do not seem accidental. Perhaps ideas of creation from nothing, or alternating cycles of creation and destruction are hardwired in the human psyche. Certainly Shiva’s percussive drumbeat suggests the sudden energetic impulse that could have propelled the big bang. And if, as some theorists have proposed, the big bang is merely the prelude to the big crunch and the universe is caught in an infinite cycle of expansion and contraction, then ancient Indian cosmology is clearly cutting edge compared to the one-directional vision of the big bang. The infinite number of Hindu universes is currently called the many world hypothesis, which is no less undocumentable nor unthinkable.

(source: Lost Discoveries: The Ancient Roots of Modern Science - By Dick Teresi p. 159 and 174 -212).
 
Last edited:
Jul 2017
442
Olympia, WA, USA
#65
"The Greatest Name should be found upon the lips in the first awaking moment of early dawn. It should be fed upon by constant use in daily invocation, in trouble, under opposition, and should be the last word breathed when the head rests upon the pillow at night. It is the name of comfort, protection, happiness, illumination, love and unity… The use of the Greatest Name and dependence upon it, cause the soul to strip itself of the husks of mortality and to step forth freed, reborn, and new creature…“ - `Abdu‘l Bahá
Thanks for that quote. :) I never saw it before.
I think we can learn form each other, but we all have to develop our own spiritual practices, and they are very personal.
I normally cry out to Jesus and God in times of peril, but maybe I should cry out to Baha'u'llah.
I usually recite the following prayers of the Bab in the early morning on my way to work for about 45 minutes.

Say: God sufficeth all things above all things, and nothing in the heavens or in the earth but God sufficeth. Verily, He is in Himself the Knower, the Sustainer, the Omnipotent.
The Báb
Is there any Remover of difficulties save God? Say: Praised be God! He is God! All are His servants, and all abide by His bidding!
The Báb
Then after that I listen to Christian music for 45 minutes. The odd thing is that I was never a Christian and I do not believe in Christian doctrines but I find more inspiration in Christian music than in Baha'i music. I think what inspires me is the firm faith and their nearness to God of many Christians, which I need in my life. One of my favorite songs is Even If.
Its the best way to go beyond the own philosophical speculations to quote the scriptures. I cannot see any mistake in that.
Besides that, nobody knows what a person is doing when they are not on a forum, so one should not assume that because someone posts Writings on a forum that means they do not think for themselves. That is called the fallacy of jumping to conclusions. ;)
 
Jul 2017
442
Olympia, WA, USA
#66
You may incorrectly believe that God is unfair but all religions teach that God is loving, kind, merciful, compassionate and fair. That is 101 of religion and don't ask me for quotes from scriptures to support that view. Shoghi Effendi obviously never could explain why the events of this world make God look unfair which is contrary to the truths asserted about God in the scriptures of all religions, because Shoghi Effendi unwisely rejected the law of karma and reincarnation.
Note that I said “That does not seem fair.” I did not say that is not fair.

So what if all religions teach that God is loving, kind, merciful, compassionate and fair? That does not prove anything at all. People want to believe that so they believe it, but there is no proof. I only believe it because I believe what Baha’u’llah wrote, halfheartedly I add, because I see a contradiction in all the suffering in the world.

It is not Shoghi Effendi’s job to make the events of the world look fair to people. People all have their own mind and they can assess that for themselves. The law of karma and reincarnation only makes events in this world seem fair in your mind, but it makes it seem unfair in my mind. Baha’u’llah did not teach reincarnation and that is all I need to know that it is a false belief. You are free to believe it if you want to because you are not a Baha’i there is no reason why you would have to adhere to what Baha’u’llah wrote.
You say that because you erroneously believe God is unfair while I know from experience that God is always fair.
You cannot know from your own experience that God is fair; you only have your own experience of God, or what you attribute to God. You cannot say you know from experience that God is always fair to everyone. You can only believe that because religions teach it, not from experience.

What I say about the spiritual world has nothing to do with what I say about God being unfair. A spiritual world either exists or it doesn’t exist. I believe what is in the Baha’i Writings about the spiritual world. I do not manufacture things in my own mind.
Since we disagree on fundamentals, there is no meeting point for a meaningful discussion. You cannot prove that the spiritual world exists. If it does, it is certainly beyond the range of your experience. So you do not know from experience how it is in the spiritual world. You can only repeat stuff that came from others. Even a parrot can be taught to do that. How does that make you any better. What is the truth you have realized from your personal experience and made your own?
How could I know what the spiritual world is like? I cannot know until I experience it, yet I can know something about it without experiencing it myself because I can know from what others have written about it. It is called faith.

Personal experience only has value for the person who experiences it. It does not prove anything at all. It could easily be a delusion so it is not reliable as evidence to anyone except the one person who is convinced by it. I do need to have “my own” personal experience to know the Truth from God. All I need are the Writings of Baha’u’llah. I cannot know more than a Manifestation of God because He has the knowledge of God, and God is All-Knowing.
That's not coming from Bahaullah. He was silent on reincarnation. When you add something to Bahaullah's teachings or remove something from his teachings, you alter and corrupt them.
Baha’u’llah did not teach reincarnation so I do not have to remove anything from His teachings. You are corrupting what Baha’u’llah wrote if you try to add to what He wrote.
Baha’u’llah was not silent about what happened after we die physically. He never said anything about ever coming back to “this world.”

“And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 155-156
“Blessed is the soul which, at the hour of its separation from the body, is sanctified from the vain imaginings of the peoples of the world. Such a soul liveth and moveth in accordance with the Will of its Creator, and entereth the all-highest Paradise. The Maids of Heaven, inmates of the loftiest mansions, will circle around it, and the Prophets of God and His chosen ones will seek its companionship. With them that soul will freely converse, and will recount unto them that which it hath been made to endure in the path of God, the Lord of all worlds. If any man be told that which hath been ordained for such a soul in the worlds of God, the Lord of the throne on high and of earth below, his whole being will instantly blaze out in his great longing to attain that most exalted, that sanctified and resplendent station….”
That's a disservice to Bahaullah. The quote says "Spiritually we must develop here what we will require for the life after death." For a man to develop spiritually, his material needs must be met first.
Shoghi Effendi also wrote: In that future life, God, through His mercy, can help us to evolve characteristics which we neglected to develop while we were on this earthly plane.

There are many reasons why we might fail to develop spiritually in this world, not just because our physical needs were not met. The spiritual development of someone with serious psychological problems would be hindered more than someone who did not have his physical needs met. If people die from not having their essential physical needs met then they go to the spiritual world where the physical needs are no longer an issue and they can continue to progress in the spiritual world.
This unfairness and lack of mercy of God is contrary to the teachings of all religions including the Bahai faith. Even the quote you have above says "God, through His mercy............."
If it is contrary to the teachings of all the religions then either the religions are wrong or you have to interpret what you see in the world differently. There is no other option. God does not make it right by sending people back to this world to live another life. The only way God can recompense the suffering is in another world that is far superior to this world.

“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.”
What kind of mercy are we talking about when a young girl is subjected repeatedly to physical, mental and emotional violence. Why should an innocent girl go through that experience in God's creation?
So are you saying that you do not believe that God is merciful?
What do you think God should do about the suffering in this world?

God created this material world so God is responsible for the suffering, but God is not responsible for the free will choices that humans make that cause suffering to themselves or others. Sadly, many people suffer as the result of evil choices others make. What can God do about that without overriding human free will?
 
Jul 2017
442
Olympia, WA, USA
#67
I find Trailblazer completely illogical and egotistic.
You think I am illogical and egotistic because I stand firm in my beliefs and disagree with you about religion.

Disagreeing about religion is not egotistic, but not allowing other people to have their own beliefs and opinions and telling them they are wrong or critiquing their spiritual practices is egotistic.
 
Likes: Seeker 9
Jul 2017
442
Olympia, WA, USA
#68
That comment is an oxymoron. Someone that can reason and investigate to find out the truth will never embrace a belief system and tout their beliefs. The fact that you "believe" proves you cannot reason in a scientific way.
I investigated the Baha’i Faith and discovered what it taught. Then I reasoned that progressive revelation makes sense and that is why I believe it.
Reasoning is not scientific. We reason with the rational soul.
It is obvious that the older religions do not have what humanity needs in this new age.
You say you have not studied all the religions but yet make claims that older religions do not have what humanity needs. You are claiming knowledge of religions you have not studied. You have certainty without clarity.
I have clarity from Baha’u’llah. That is all I need to have certainty. My own ego does not provide certainty.

“The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.
We can well perceive how the whole human race is encompassed with great, with incalculable afflictions. We see it languishing on its bed of sickness, sore-tried and disillusioned. They that are intoxicated by self-conceit have interposed themselves between it and the Divine and infallible Physician. Witness how they have entangled all men, themselves included, in the mesh of their devices. They can neither discover the cause of the disease, nor have they any knowledge of the remedy. They have conceived the straight to be crooked, and have imagined their friend an enemy.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213
I do not need to study older religions whose dispensations have been abrogated. That would be illogical and a waste of my precious time.

That's a sure sign of dogmatism and religious fundamentalism.
No, it is a sign that I do not have time to study all the older religions. It is also a sign that I have what I need in the Revelation of Baha’u’llah.
You want to tie down all the religions to your plane of thought and make your mind the measure of entire truth. The ocean of truth will not fit in to your cup of human understanding. You need to expand your human understanding in to divine understanding to hold the ocean of truth.
I do not tie any religions down to anything since I have little to do with them except when I am discussing them on forums. I do not need to do anything except what I have been enjoined to do by Baha’u’llah, and that is quite enough. I do not have time for anything else.
If they did, the world would not be in the mess it is now in.

The world is in a mess because people are not strong enough to follow their respective religions. The fault does not lie with religions but with imperfect people.
That is true about people, but it does not change the fact that the older religions do not have the remedy humanity needs in this new age. They have the spiritual teachings that individuals need but they do not have a “program” for the salvation of all of humanity. Only the Baha’i Faith has that.

“Wert thou to consider, for but a little while, the outward works and doings of Him Who is the Eternal Truth, thou wouldst fall down upon the ground, and exclaim: O Thou Who art the Lord of Lords! I testify that Thou art the Lord of all creation, and the Educator of all beings, visible and invisible. I bear witness that Thy power hath encompassed the entire universe, and that the hosts of the earth can never dismay Thee, nor can the dominion of all peoples and nations deter Thee from executing Thy purpose. I confess that Thou hast no desire except the regeneration of the whole world, and the establishment of the unity of its peoples, and the salvation of all them that dwell therein.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 243
Science is a separate domain from religion. Science cannot prove anything about religion.

That shows you do not know how to practice religion scientifically.
Not a surprise since you rely on a belief system which does not allow scientific enquiry.
The harmony of science and religion is an essential teaching of the Baha’i Faith so what you said is absolutely false. Science is just as important as religion according to Baha’i teachings.

FOURTH PRINCIPLE—THE ACCEPTANCE OF THE RELATION BETWEEN RELIGION AND SCIENCE
Try meditation if you want to practice religion scientifically and your body-mind will become the laboratory where you can verify spiritual truths. But the way you talk, I know you are no where close to meditating.
I do not need to verify spiritual truths on a personal level. All I have to do is read what Baha’u’llah wrote to know what is true.

It is nobody’s business whether I meditate or not. That is no reflection on my character, which is all that is important at the end of the day. I will deal with my personal relationship to God in my own way. I do not need to experience God through meditation to know about God. All I have to do is read what Baha’u’llah wrote about God to have knowledge of God. For all you know maybe I do not want to experience God. What of it?
I am sorry you do not like the reality that the older dispensations have been abrogated by the Revelation of Baha’u’llah, but there is nothing you can do about it since it was the Will of God.

That's your spiritual ego going blah blah blah..........
No, that is the fundamental teaching of the Baha’i Faith. It has nothing to do with me so it cannot be my ego. You are under no obligation to accept it as true because you are not a Baha’i. You can continue clinging to your older religion just like everyone else, but then don’t wonder why the suffering in the world that results from economic and social inequality continues unabated.

“The One true God beareth Me witness, and His creatures will testify, that not for a moment did I allow Myself to be hidden from the eyes of men, nor did I consent to shield My person from their injury. Before the face of all men I have arisen, and bidden them fulfil My pleasure. My object is none other than the betterment of the world and the tranquillity of its peoples. The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 286
 
Feb 2019
197
Chicago
#69
Note that I said “That does not seem fair.” I did not say that is not fair.

So what if all religions teach that God is loving, kind, merciful, compassionate and fair? That does not prove anything at all.
You are missing the point which was that there is a contradiction between the events we see in God's creation and the claims that scriptures make about God being merciful and kind. If a religion cannot explain the contradiction, it proves something is missing in that religion.

I only believe it because I believe what Baha’u’llah wrote, halfheartedly I add, because I see a contradiction in all the suffering in the world.
That contradiction can only be resolved through the law of karma and reincarnation.

It is not Shoghi Effendi’s job to make the events of the world look fair to people.
But as a religious leader he should be able to explain why the events in God's creation seem unfair and merciless while God is supposed to be full of mercy. How does Shoghi Effendi explain seemingly innocent people getting killed in a Tsumani or earthquakes which are considered acts of God. I bet Shoghi Effendi has no clue and no wonder you have no clue either. It is a case of blind leading the blind.

You cannot know from your own experience that God is fair; you only have your own experience of God, or what you attribute to God. You cannot say you know from experience that God is always fair to everyone. You can only believe that because religions teach it, not from experience.
You cannot verify my experiences. So your comments are just funny.

How could I know what the spiritual world is like? I cannot know until I experience it, yet I can know something about it without experiencing it myself because I can know from what others have written about it. It is called faith.
A lot of faithful muslim men believe they will go to heaven and have sex with eternal virgins. Good luck with blind faith.

All I need are the Writings of Baha’u’llah. I cannot know more than a Manifestation of God because He has the knowledge of God, and God is All-Knowing.
You also need the ability to understand his teachings which you obviously never bothered to develop. So all you can do is copy and paste.

Baha’u’llah did not teach reincarnation so I do not have to remove anything from His teachings. You are corrupting what Baha’u’llah wrote if you try to add to what He wrote. Baha’u’llah was not silent about what happened after we die physically. He never said anything about ever coming back to “this world.”
Earlier in this thread, I did quote him saying that the soul that is not faithful to God will sink further in to depths of the self and passion. That is a reference to coming back in to this world.

Shoghi Effendi also wrote: In that future life, God, through His mercy, can help us to evolve characteristics which we neglected to develop while we were on this earthly plane.
That sounds like a recipe for promoting spiritual laziness. Why would anyone serious about spiritual progress want to neglect cultivation of spiritual qualities and why would God help the lazy? This is similar to the belief that if you embrace Jesus as your savior, he will wash your sins with his blood and take you to heaven. The Hindu avatars teach that entering the kingdom of God is like threading a needle which is impossible if any fibers stick out. Even if one imperfection stands out, you cannot enter. Bahaullah also said that there are other planets like earth in God's creation. Can you explain why you were born here and not on another planet?

The only way God can recompense the suffering is in another world that is far superior to this world.
But why would God allow suffering in the first place. Why should an innocent girl be repeatedly raped in God's creation. What is her mistake? Would you cause suffering to your children in one room of your house and recompense the suffering in another room. Makes no sense.
 
Feb 2019
197
Chicago
#70
You think I am illogical and egotistic because I stand firm in my beliefs and disagree with you about religion.

Disagreeing about religion is not egotistic, but not allowing other people to have their own beliefs and opinions and telling them they are wrong or critiquing their spiritual practices is egotistic.
Putting down other religions as outdated, corrupted and abrogated is an egotistic attitude.
 

Similar threads