Staking money on self considered betting?

djg

Jul 2017
79
Denver, CO
Is staking money on one's self in a game of skill considered betting by the UHJ?
 
Sep 2010
4,602
Normanton, Far North West Queensland
Is staking money on one's self in a game of skill considered betting by the UHJ?
I see these matters are still up to one's own conscience.

I even gave up buying lottery tickets a long time ago, thus I may not be the best person to help you here 😃. I do buy some charity tickets but put on the ticket stub to donate it back to another raffle 😂

Regards Tony
 
Jul 2018
105
Tarshish, bound for Nineveh
Is staking money on one's self in a game of skill considered betting by the UHJ?
"Staking money" sounds like a euphemism for gambling to me, how about you?

Gambling is prohibited in the faith. I think it matters little what you may call it.

Cheers
 
Sep 2010
4,602
Normanton, Far North West Queensland
Is staking money on one's self in a game of skill considered betting by the UHJ?
"Staking money" sounds like a euphemism for gambling to me, how about you?

Gambling is prohibited in the faith. I think it matters little what you may call it.

Cheers
This quote may help;

The activities that are included in this prohibition have not been outlined in the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh. As both ‘Abdu’l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi have indicated, it is left to the Universal House of Justice to specify the details of this prohibition. In response to questions about whether lotteries, betting on such things as horse races and football games, bingo, and the like, are included under the prohibition of gambling, the Universal House of Justice has indicated that this is a matter that will be considered in detail in the future. In the meantime, the Assemblies and individuals are counselled not to make an issue of these matters and to leave it to the conscience of the individual believers.

The House of Justice has ruled that it is not appropriate for funds for the Faith to be raised through lotteries, raffles, and games of chance.

Regards Tony
 
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Jul 2018
105
Tarshish, bound for Nineveh
This quote may help;

The activities that are included in this prohibition have not been outlined in the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh. As both ‘Abdu’l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi have indicated, it is left to the Universal House of Justice to specify the details of this prohibition. In response to questions about whether lotteries, betting on such things as horse races and football games, bingo, and the like, are included under the prohibition of gambling, the Universal House of Justice has indicated that this is a matter that will be considered in detail in the future. In the meantime, the Assemblies and individuals are counselled not to make an issue of these matters and to leave it to the conscience of the individual believers.

The House of Justice has ruled that it is not appropriate for funds for the Faith to be raised through lotteries, raffles, and games of chance.

Regards Tony

Thanks for the quote, Tony.

I remember years ago, the friends discussing together whether or not it would be appropriate to hold a raffle as a fund raiser back in the days of building the Arc. None of us seemed to have any question about whether or not betting was allowed, because that was the key issue around the raffle; does it constitute betting or not? So if it is left to the individual conscience to decide, then the decision the individual should be going for, in my opinion, is does the activity in question violate the spirit of law against gambling. It is no secret that gambling is an addictive behavior that triggers dopamine responses in the brain. The Aqdas also prohibits consuming that which robs the mind of reason. I leave it to you to decide if that might not entail more than alcohol and drugs. As for me, it entails behaviors and even foods that lead to mental deterioration, impurity and enslavement.

Cheers
 
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Sep 2010
4,602
Normanton, Far North West Queensland
Thanks for the quote, Tony.

I remember years ago, the friends discussing together whether or not it would be appropriate to hold a raffle as a fund raiser back in the days of building the Arc. None of us seemed to have any question about whether or not betting was allowed, because that was the key issue around the raffle; does it constitute betting or not? So if it is left to the individual conscience to decide, then the decision the individual should be going for, in my opinion, is does the activity in question violate the spirit of law against gambling. It is no secret that gambling is an addictive behavior that triggers dopamine responses in the brain. The Aqdas also prohibits consuming that which robs the mind of reason. I leave it to you to decide if that might not entail more than alcohol and drugs. As for me, it entails behaviors and even foods that lead to mental deterioration, impurity and enslavement.

Cheers
Thank you Luqman for the question.

Yes we are not allowed to raise funds from raffles, but remember this Faith is organic and it takes us all a long time to grasp the importance of all of what Baha'u'llah has said and how deeply it permeates a way of life we have been born into. For a lot of us great change is needed, how else can a new race of man be created unless we drop the old and become new!

A good thing to remember is that there are many fund-raising ways that do not involve chance and the money earned becomes a Baha'is to give freely of. One could have a garage sale where Baha'i donated goods and time to raise funds. In this way the funds raised belong to the Baha'i to then give freely of.

I see with a raffle, that people who are not Baha'i have now donated to a Baha'i Project, which as you would know, is for Bahai's only to fund. Lotteries have legal requirements, the funds once raised are not owned by the Baha'i to be freely given.

With all these matters, remember we have the LSA and an administrative process to follow. They have the responsibility to approve all teaching and fund related matters.

Regards Tony
 
Jun 2014
1,100
Wisconsin
My stance on gambling isn't from the Faith, but rather from being a Computer Science major: They made me take a number of logic and statistics classes.

Because of this, and the typical odds when it comes to gambling, gambling either seems like a terrible idea, absolutely pointless, or unfair.

If the odds are not in your favor, you're going to loose far more than you will ever win, and so gambling is always a stupid idea.

If the odds are exactly 50/50, then gambling is pointless, as statistically you'll end up with the exact same money as before gambling.

And if the odds are in your favor, then it's pretty much unfair to the other person in the bet, so it doesn't seem all that moral to do in that scenario.

So from a pure CompSci perspective, don't gamble unless your the house (from purely practicality concerns), and if you are the house, the money you're making isn't really an honest earning.

But to your precise question, it comes down to where one draws the line on "gambling", which can be a bit hazy.

The way I see it, if it is a game of skill and you are betting money on it where if you win you get the money and if you loose someone else gets yours, that would be gambling.

If, however, the game of skill is offering a cash prize for the victor and is charging an entry fee, I would not consider that to be gambling.

These two scenarios are extremely close to one another but that's where I'd draw the line, personally.

I also know there are Baha'i's that participate in charity raffles, though I would not do such a thing since I think that crosses the line into gambling (and charity raffles will often gladly simply take monetary donations, so there's no need to enter the game of chance, in my own opinion). So the exact place of where we draw the line is a bit murky and there seems to be no clear consensus

Personally I've paid to enter Magic: the Gathering events that offer prizes, but I've never considered that gambling. I've never won. I'm relatively sure I will never win. I've never entered an event thinking winning is a possibility for me. I pay into it knowing I won't be the winner because I'm there to play the game, not to win. :p
 
Sep 2010
4,602
Normanton, Far North West Queensland
If, however, the game of skill is offering a cash prize for the victor and is charging an entry fee, I would not consider that to be gambling.
All professional sports people would agree :)

Regards Tony