The Return of Christ

Sep 2010
4,652
Normanton, Far North West Queensland
It was a good watch. One thing that needs to be considered is that at this time it is hard to tie the Valley of Sharron into the Prophecy and the Valley of Achor . Akka is roughly North Nor East of Haifa and Sharon is South. I am not aware at this time if Sharon had any major part in prophecy connected to Mount Carmel. Also most people will see that the Valley of Achor is located about half way between Jerusalem and the northern end of the Dead Sea. It is near Jericho, but very far from Akka.

Abdul'baha has offered;

"It is recorded in the Torah: And I will give you the valley of Achor for a door of hope. This valley of Achor is the city of ‘Akká, and whoso hath interpreted this otherwise is of those who know not." (Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, 162.)

So faith gives us a different vision, but it is not a vision that will be accepted without Faith.

My guess is that prophecy will still unfold and most likely Sharon will become a place where many Baha'i Live. I see the Bible is timeles in its prophecy.

Sharon.jpg
Achor.png

So to understand Abdul'baha's interpretation we have to sonsider that when Isaiah (Isa. 65:10) refers to it, he uses it in this sense: "The valley of Achor, a place for herds to lie down in;" i.e., that which had been a source of calamity would become a source of blessing. Hosea also (Hos. 2:15) uses the expression in the same sense: "The valley of Achor for a door of hope;" i.e., trouble would be turned into joy, despair into hope.

Regards Tony
 
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Jul 2017
363
Kettering, Ohio USA
It was a good watch. One thing that needs to be considered is that at this time it is hard to tie the Valley of Sharron into the Prophecy and the Valley of Achor . Akka is roughly North Nor East of Haifa and Sharon is South. I am not aware at this time if Sharon had any major part in prophecy connected to Mount Carmel. Also most people will see that the Valley of Achor is located about half way between Jerusalem and the northern end of the Dead Sea. It is near Jericho, but very far from Akka.

Abdul'baha has offered;

"It is recorded in the Torah: And I will give you the valley of Achor for a door of hope. This valley of Achor is the city of ‘Akká, and whoso hath interpreted this otherwise is of those who know not." (Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, 162.)

So faith gives us a different vision, but it is not a vision that will be accepted without Faith.

My guess is that prophecy will still unfold and most likely Sharon will become a place where many Baha'i Live. I see the Bible is timeles in its prophecy.

View attachment 517
View attachment 518

So to understand Abdul'baha's interpretation we have to sonsider that when Isaiah (Isa. 65:10) refers to it, he uses it in this sense: "The valley of Achor, a place for herds to lie down in;" i.e., that which had been a source of calamity would become a source of blessing. Hosea also (Hos. 2:15) uses the expression in the same sense: "The valley of Achor for a door of hope;" i.e., trouble would be turned into joy, despair into hope.

Regards Tony
Another biblical prophecy frequently cited by Bahá'ís is Hosea 2:15, "And I will give. . . the valley of Achor for a door of hope. . ." According to Joshua 15:7—which mentions it while delimiting the northeastern border of the land of Judah—the Valley of Achor is located about half way between Jerusalem and the northern end of the Dead Sea. It is near Jericho, but very far from Akka. While the Israelites were camped there Joshua discovered that an Israelite had secretly kept some of the loot from the capture of Jericho for himself, thereby calling God's punishment down on all the people (Joshua 8). The hoarder was stoned to death, and the text concludes that "therefore to this day the name of that place is called the Valley of Achor" (Joshua 7:26). Achor, in Hebrew, means "trouble"; and the Valley of Achor came to symbolize trouble in the Hebrew Bible. Hosea (and Isaiah, who refers to it in 65:10) mention Achor to suggest that in the last times even a "valley of trouble" would become a door of hope. The verse is a clear word play on the meaning of Achor. Bahá'ís, of course, understand the verse to refer to Akka.This conclusion is supported by Abdu'l-Bahá Himself: It is recorded in the Torah: And I will give you the valley of Achor for a door of hope. This valley of Achor is the city of 'Akká, and whoso hath interpreted this otherwise is of those who know not.(Selections from the Writings of 'Abdu'l-Bahá, 162.) There is no reason to assume that 'Abdu'l-Bahá was wrong and did not know where the Bible says Achor is, or that He was ignorant of Hosea's word play. Nor, perhaps, should one assume that 'Abdu'l-Bahá was denying that Hosea meant to make the word play.

Robert Stockman, “Christianity from a Bahá’í Perspective”

I think that what Stockman is getting to here is that a prophecy can have more than one meaning.
 
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Jul 2017
363
Kettering, Ohio USA
Here is a fuller quote from Stockman than what I found in Ocean for context:

An examination of 'Abdu'l-Bahá's interpretations of passages from the Hebrew prophets supports the hypothesis that biblical passages contain many valid meanings. Bahá'ís often read the Bible primarily to find references to Bahá'u'lláh in the text, and then think they have exhausted its meaning. But much of what the Bible "means" is tied to the times which, and people who, produced it, hence the meaning of the text is often contextual and plural. Furthermore, the images and symbols of the biblical prophecies have been used in countless ways by millions of people over thousands of years to make sense out of their situation; one cannot declare all those other interpretations to be invalid or wrong. Rather, one must recognize a Bahá'í interpretation of a biblical verse as one possible valid meaning of the verse; God may have intended other meanings as well.

A prominent example is Ezekiel 43:4, "And the glory of the LORD came into the house by way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east." Although no official Bahá'í interpretation of the verse is known to the writer, Bahá'ís "know" that this refers to Bahá'u'lláh coming to the Holy Land by way of "the Gate" (the Báb) from the east (Iran and Iraq).[3] "The glory of the LORD" is a good translation of the word Bahá'u'lláh. "LORD" (in capital letters) is the standard English translation for "Yahweh," which is God's name, just like "Allah" is a designation for the God, not any god. "Glory" (Hebrew, kabod) can be translated into Arabic several ways—majd, jalál, or bahá.

But Ezekiel wrote this passage to convey something very different to his contemporaries, who, like he, had recently made a heartbreaking and exhausting journey from Jerusalem to their exile in Mesopotamia (Iraq). He was promising that God's "glory," that is, God's nimbus, or God's aura, or God's spirit, would return to the Temple in Jerusalem through the east gate, that is, from Mesopotamia, with the Jewish people who were in exile there. This verse, then, was part of Ezekiel's promise to his people that God would eventually lead them back to Israel.

There is no reason for Bahá'ís to deny the possibility that God had both of these meanings in mind—and perhaps others—when He gave the vision to Ezekiel.

Another biblical prophecy frequently cited by Bahá'ís is Hosea 2:15, "And I will give. . . the valley of Achor for a door of hope. . ." According to Joshua 15:7—which mentions it while delimiting the northeastern border of the land of Judah—the Valley of Achor is located about half way between Jerusalem and the northern end of the Dead Sea. It is near Jericho, but very far from Akka. While the Israelites were camped there Joshua discovered that an Israelite had secretly kept some of the loot from the capture of Jericho for himself, thereby calling God's punishment down on all the people (Joshua 8). The hoarder was stoned to death, and the text concludes that "therefore to this day the name of that place is called the Valley of Achor" (Joshua 7:26). Achor, in Hebrew, means "trouble"; and the Valley of Achor came to symbolize trouble in the Hebrew Bible. Hosea (and Isaiah, who refers to it in 65:10) mention Achor to suggest that in the last times even a "valley of trouble" would become a door of hope. The verse is a clear word play on the meaning of Achor.

Bahá'ís, of course, understand the verse to refer to Akka. This conclusion is supported by Abdu'l-Bahá Himself:

It is recorded in the Torah: And I will give you the valley of Achor for a door of hope. This valley of Achor is the city of 'Akká, and whoso hath interpreted this otherwise is of those who know not. (Selections from the Writings of 'Abdu'l-Bahá, 162.)
There is no reason to assume that 'Abdu'l-Bahá was wrong and did not know where the Bible says Achor is, or that He was ignorant of Hosea's word play. Nor, perhaps, should one assume that 'Abdu'l-Bahá was denying that Hosea meant to make the word play. Rather, perhaps, 'Abdu'l-Bahá was saying—in hyperbolic language—that from a Bahá'í perspective, Achor means Akka. That interpretation, for Bahá'ís, is the important and valid understanding of the verse, and not others.
 
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Jul 2018
110
Tarshish, bound for Nineveh
I like it, but would point out the fact that "Jesus Christ" (Christ Jesus is more accurate) does not return, but Christ does.

Cheers
 
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Jul 2017
551
Olympia, WA, USA
Kindly explain further. TIA
In the New Testament, Jesus said we would see the Son of man coming in the clouds.

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

The title Son of man does not apply exclusively to Jesus. It also applies to Baha’u’llah.

To explain in brief, Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven means that the return of the Christ Spirit promised in the Bible (who was Baha’u’llah) will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God, and will appear in the form of a human being. The term “heaven” means loftiness and exaltation. Although Jesus was delivered from the womb of His mother, in reality He descended from the heaven of the will of God. Though dwelling on this earth, His true habitation was the realms above. While walking among mortals on earth, Jesus soared in the heaven of the divine presence.

Baha’u’llah explained the meaning of clouds in The Kitáb-i-Íqán. He devoted quite a bit of text to explaining what clouds means. To paraphrase Baha’u’llah, Son of man coming on the clouds means that the return of the Christ Spirit will appear in the form of another human being. The term “clouds” as used in the Bible means those things that are contrary to the ways and desires of men. Just like the physical clouds prevent the eyes of men from beholding the sun, the desires of men hindered men from recognizing the return of Christ. Thus the meaning of clouds is symbolic, not literal. Their judgment was clouded.

The reason Christians missed recognizing Baha’u’llah in the mid-19th century (and still do not recognize Him) is because they are waiting for the “literal fulfillment” of those Son of man in the clouds of heaven prophecies. They expect the same physical body of Jesus to come floating down on a physical cloud from heaven.... but I am sure you already know this since it is a basic Christian belief you must have held once upon a time.