To Venu

Jul 2017
511
Olympia, WA, USA
If you believe that Baha'u'llah is a prophet of God you should follow HIs laws because He is the latest Manifestation of God.
That would be true, but only if Venu chose to commit himself to being a Baha'i. But then he could not be a Hindu or a Christian. Since these religions contradict each other, believing in one precludes believing in the others, if we are going to be honest with ourselves.
 
Feb 2019
251
Chicago
If you believe that Baha'u'llah is a prophet of God you should follow HIs laws because He is the latest Manifestation of God.
When I read Bahaullah's mysticism, the spiritual vibration and potency I feel in his words tells me he is an avatar or manifestation of God. Nobody made me believe in anything about Bahaullah. I am not a big fan of belief systems. History has shown us that belief systems have led to religious wars, genocide and persecution of the innocent. And beliefs do not enhance one's ability to understand or practice the teachings of Bahaullah or Jesus in anyway. For example, if you start believing today that Jesus is the only Son of God, will it help you better interpret what he meant by Kingdom of God being within you in Luke 17:21 or his other esoteric teachings. Or does your belief that Bahaullah is a manifestation of God guarantee that you understand everything he wrote. If so, please offer a detailed explanation of Bahaullah's Tablet of the Maiden and Tablet of the Deathless Youth with answers to some of the questions I already asked you about them before. You couldn't answer my questions because your belief system couldn't help you come up with the answers. That's another reason I shun belief systems.

Secondly, after Bahaullah there have been other avatars in India like Ramana Maharishi, Anandamayi Ma and Ramakrishna Paramahansa to name a few. So your belief that Bahaullah is the latest manifestation of God is questionable and is incorrect. You don't have to take my word for it. If you are interested in the truth and it is fine if you are not, take some time to study the lives of avatars I mentioned and if you are in tune with Bahaullah, the truth about these avatars will intuitively find resonance in your own consciousness because all avatars and manifestations of God drink from the same cup.

There are many paths to God shown by different prophets and I am free to choose the path that is most suited for my nature. I am not convinced God wants me to follow Bahaullah's teachings but I do honor Bahaullah as an avatar or manifestation of God.
 
Feb 2019
251
Chicago
That would be true, but only if Venu chose to commit himself to being a Baha'i. But then he could not be a Hindu or a Christian. Since these religions contradict each other, believing in one precludes believing in the others, if we are going to be honest with ourselves.
All the contradictions are because of the irrational belief systems that folks cling to. I am willing to bet if Bahaullah, Mohammed, Jesus, Moses, Buddha and Krishna were in the same room, they would be in perfect harmony and agreement with each other.
 
Jul 2017
511
Olympia, WA, USA
All the contradictions are because of the irrational belief systems that folks cling to. I am willing to bet if Bahaullah, Mohammed, Jesus, Moses, Buddha and Krishna were in the same room, they would be in perfect harmony and agreement with each other.
Actually, that is true.

“The Bearers of the Trust of God are made manifest unto the peoples of the earth as the Exponents of a new Cause and the Revealers of a new Message. Inasmuch as these Birds of the celestial Throne are all sent down from the heaven of the Will of God, and as they all arise to proclaim His irresistible Faith, they, therefore, are regarded as one soul and the same person. For they all drink from the one Cup of the love of God, and all partake of the fruit of the same Tree of Oneness.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 50


“It is clear and evident to thee that all the Prophets are the Temples of the Cause of God, Who have appeared clothed in divers attire. If thou wilt observe with discriminating eyes, thou wilt behold Them all abiding in the same tabernacle, soaring in the same heaven, seated upon the same throne, uttering the same speech, and proclaiming the same Faith.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 52
 
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Jcc

Mar 2013
594
Edwardsville, Illinois, USA
Secondly, after Bahaullah there have been other avatars in India like Ramana Maharishi, Anandamayi Ma and Ramakrishna Paramahansa to name a few. So your belief that Bahaullah is the latest manifestation of God is questionable and is incorrect. You don't have to take my word for it. If you are interested in the truth and it is fine if you are not, take some time to study the lives of avatars I mentioned and if you are in tune with Bahaullah, the truth about these avatars will intuitively find resonance in your own consciousness because all avatars and manifestations of God drink from the same cup.
Venu, as you have probably observed, this statement is something most Baha’is will object to, as Baha’u’llah did say that “anyone who lays claim to a Revelation direct from God before the expiration of a full thousand years is a lying imposter”. This does allow the possibility that certain mystics can receive inspiration from God, indirectly, In other words, the avatars you mention have received inspiration from God, but it was by intermediary of other spiritual beings who brought the message to them.

The term “manifestation of God” is meaningless until we specify a definition for it. In Baha’i terms, Manifestation of God refers to the founders of the great religious systems, and are the focal point of a Revelation, which is written down in Holy Scriptures that are used in worship by millions of followers for a thousand years or more. This is to be distinguished from lesser prophets who do receive inspiration from God, but are under the shadow of the Manifestation who founded the religious system. For instance, Moses was a Manifestation, and prophets such as Daniel and Isaiah were lesser prophets within the Dispensation of Moses. I would suggest that mystics such as Ramana Maharishi, Anandamayi Ma and Ramakrishna Paramahansa may be something like that.

I suppose to an outside observer, there is no way to know which prophet or mystic will eventually have millions or billions of followers and scriptures that will be used for thousands of years in the future. Speaking personally, I feel a strong spiritual connection and am convinced in every way, heart and mind, that Baha’u’llah is a Universal Manifestation of God, according to the definition I provided above. It will take centuries before that is effectively proved out, because it has only been less than 200 years since His Revelation, so I appreciate that most people would assume Baha’u’llah is not different than many other mystics or lesser prophets, but to me there is a world of difference.
 
Jun 2014
1,100
Wisconsin
1) This post seems dangerously close to proselytizing, which is forbidden.

2) This would probably be more appropriate as a private message rather than a public post calling out a specific user.
 
Feb 2019
251
Chicago
Venu, as you have probably observed, this statement is something most Baha’is will object to, as Baha’u’llah did say that “anyone who lays claim to a Revelation direct from God before the expiration of a full thousand years is a lying imposter”
The Bahai are welcome to object but don't you think it is strange that you have to object to an assertion of truth that does not threaten the Bahai Faith in any way. It would be understandable if you disagree but do you really have to object? The words you are attributing to Bahaullah are similar to the following words that are attributed to Prophet Mohammed except that you have a 1000 year limit.

O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me, and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O people, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and my example, the Sunnah, and if you follow these you will never go astray. (excerpt from Mohammed's final sermon)

Prophet Muhammad’s Last Sermon: A Final Admonition

According to Shoghi Effendi, the Bahai faith originated from Islam. So it is possible the Bahai faith has borrowed some ideas from Islam and modified them a bit. I mean your objection is elementally not different from the objections Muslims have over Bahai claims regarding Bahaullah.

This does allow the possibility that certain mystics can receive inspiration from God, indirectly, In other words, the avatars you mention have received inspiration from God, but it was by intermediary of other spiritual beings who brought the message to them.
What's happening in other parts of the world is not dependent on Bahai beliefs. It sounds like you want to subordinate everything to Bahai beliefs. Bahaullah taught that the Bahai must independently investigate the truth. You obviously have not done that with regards to the avatars I mentioned. Instead you are using an idea found in mainstream Islam which is the intermediary of other spiritual beings like angel Gabriel bringing messages from God to prophets.

The term “manifestation of God” is meaningless until we specify a definition for it. In Baha’i terms, Manifestation of God refers to the founders of the great religious systems, and are the focal point of a Revelation, which is written down in Holy Scriptures that are used in worship by millions of followers for a thousand years or more.
I appreciate the definition but there is actually only one religion which is the religion of transforming man's human nature in to divine nature. Avatars like Moses, Jesus, Krishna and Buddha did not say that they are starting new religious systems. For example you will never find Jesus calling his teachings Christianity or Buddha calling his teaching Buddhism or Krishna calling his teachings Hinduism. In fact Hinduism has no founder. Hinduism existed for thousands of years before Krishna even during the time of Rama. So by your own definition Krishna may not be a manifestation of God but Abdul Baha said he was. Mohammed did call his revelation Islam but he also mentioned that it is not a new religion. Islam is just an Arabic name for the eternal truths expressed by prophets since Adam. God created the planet and people have divided it in to countries and gave them different names. Likewise God gave eternal truths through prophets and people have divided them in to religions and gave them different names. And just like one country fights another, you have one religion pitted against another fighting for supremacy. This kind of tribalism will never end when you allow belief systems to divide people on the basis of man made religion and man made borders.

This is to be distinguished from lesser prophets who do receive inspiration from God, but are under the shadow of the Manifestation who founded the religious system. For instance, Moses was a Manifestation, and prophets such as Daniel and Isaiah were lesser prophets within the Dispensation of Moses.
I agree that different prophets manifest divinity to varying degrees but that does not mean God has placed an arbitrary limit on the number of avatars that would incarnate during a given period. You are advocating a model based on a religious system but the reality is much more complex than that. The greatness of an avatar is not be measured by the number of followers. Avatars often times incarnate to help humanity by their mere presence. Simply put, they are needed to oppose and nullify all the negative vibrations from the wrong doings of man, through their positive spiritual vibrations. They may have a few followers or no followers or millions of followers. They may write no books at all. Jesus is a good example of an avatar no never wrote a book and he only had 12 disciples. Number of followers and number of books authored can never be a measure for the greatness of an avatar. It is their inner realization and manifestation of divinity that matter.

I suppose to an outside observer, there is no way to know which prophet or mystic will eventually have millions or billions of followers and scriptures that will be used for thousands of years in the future.
That can be said of Hindu avatars I listed as well. But again I do not agree that an avatar's spiritual stature is measured by number of books authored or followers attracted. Is it not possible that an avatar can silently use his/her spiritual power to help mankind evolve in to a better race? Is it not possible that an avatar can humbly choose to remain in obscurity and carry out the mission given by God. Are you going to set the rules for God and His avatars? Is it not possible that you with your limited mental capabilities cannot understand all the mysterious ways that God operates through His avatars? Something to think about.
 
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Jul 2017
511
Olympia, WA, USA
1) This post seems dangerously close to proselytizing, which is forbidden.

2) This would probably be more appropriate as a private message rather than a public post calling out a specific user.
Are you referring to Duane's OP?
Why would that be considered proselytizing?
Maybe it is not appropriate to tell someone what they should do, but that is another matter, a matter of manners.
I do understand how this might have been more appropriate in a private message.