Was Baha’u’llah the Prince of this world?

Sep 2017
371
Earth
#11
If someone shows interest there is a good reason to spend time on it. If I bring up the Baha’i Faith and receive a negative or dismissive response I make one atempt to proved a prospective to address the issue and then cut and run to the next one. Sometimes it’s best to just make mention of Baha’u’llah and let Him spark an interest in a person if they are receptive. I have only ever been attracted to the writings and have only once or twice met a Baha’i that could present the faith accurately.
How great is this cause that we don’t need to disagree with any believers

What attracts one person may not attract another. For someone hearing Bahá’u’lláh is the return of Christ could be a deal breaker, but may become a Bahá’í eventually after learning about children’s classes and how children are being taught virtues and slowly being eased into religious prophecies. Open mindedness is key in effective teaching, prayer, and deepening. This is just my understanding though.
 
Jul 2017
442
Olympia, WA, USA
#12
If someone shows interest there is a good reason to spend time on it. If I bring up the Baha’i Faith and receive a negative or dismissive response I make one atempt to proved a prospective to address the issue and then cut and run to the next one. Sometimes it’s best to just make mention of Baha’u’llah and let Him spark an interest in a person if they are receptive. I have only ever been attracted to the writings and have only once or twice met a Baha’i that could present the faith accurately.
There sure is a lot to present about the Faith. I just follow the lead of whoever I am talking to. I normally do not bring up the Faith in personal interactions, socially or at work, unless it is related to a conversation, or unless someone asks me what I believe... Normally I only talk about the Faith on forums...

The internet forum discussion groups offer the Baha’is a unique opportunity to “proclaim” and then “share” the Faith with whomever is interested, because we can reach a wide audience and people can take it or leave it, they do not have to feel obligated to listen as they would in person. In person, I find it somewhat awkward talking about the Faith, especially if I do not know what the beliefs are of the other party. I do not want to offend anyone.

Now that I have had so much experience talking about the Faith on forums I find it is easier to talk in person, because I have learned so much about people and how to talk to them. I have also learned how to be more tolerant of people who believe differently than I do or do not believe at all. Learning to get along with people online is no different from in person, and gives us the opportunity to hone our character. I am not a sociable person so I would never have learned all this in real life social situations.

Everyone has to find their own comfort zone. Many Baha’is are more comfortable sharing the Faith in person or at a Fireside and they would not want to take a lot of time writing posts on forums unless they enjoy writing as I do.

“Consort with all men, O people of Bahá, in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship. If ye be aware of a certain truth, if ye possess a jewel, of which others are deprived, share it with them in a language of utmost kindliness and good-will. If it be accepted, if it fulfil its purpose, your object is attained. If anyone should refuse it, leave him unto himself, and beseech God to guide him. Beware lest ye deal unkindly with him. A kindly tongue is the lodestone of the hearts of men. It is the bread of the spirit, it clotheth the words with meaning, it is the fountain of the light of wisdom and understanding….” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 289
“The second Taráz is to consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship, to proclaim that which the Speaker on Sinai hath set forth and to observe fairness in all matters.
They that are endued with sincerity and faithfulness should associate with all the peoples and kindreds of the earth with joy and radiance, inasmuch as consorting with people hath promoted and will continue to promote unity and concord, which in turn are conducive to the maintenance of order in the world and to the regeneration of nations. Blessed are such as hold fast to the cord of kindliness and tender mercy and are free from animosity and hatred.” Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 35-36
 
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Likes: Traveller
Jul 2017
442
Olympia, WA, USA
#13
When we see how Abdul Baha taught we can see how he transformed the most hardened people. I think tact and wisdom is key, if we know someone is hardened making friends, real friends is key. When we see how many Bahá’í are Bahá’í because their parents are we can ask the question how many people would be Bahá’í if they We’re born in that family? Quite a few, so it’s up to us how we teach. Maybe we can’t reach everyone and they can only be reached by something else. That’s why ‘when the victory arriveth every man shall profess himself as believer’.. that will be the only thing that will change some people .. large numbers
Anymore, I only think about getting the message out, I do not care if people become Baha'is. If they are not receptive, I do not bother them again. There is always another person... Baha'u'llah said to "Unloose your tongues, and proclaim unceasingly His Cause." We are assured that the Cause will triumph eventually.

“Warn and acquaint the people, O Servant, with the things We have sent down unto Thee, and let the fear of no one dismay Thee, and be Thou not of them that waver. The day is approaching when God will have exalted His Cause and magnified His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth. Place, in all circumstances, Thy whole trust in Thy Lord, and fix Thy gaze upon Him, and turn away from all them that repudiate His truth. Let God, Thy Lord, be Thy sufficing succorer and helper. We have pledged Ourselves to secure Thy triumph upon earth and to exalt Our Cause above all men, though no king be found who would turn his face towards Thee.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 248-249
 
Dec 2018
8
United States
#16
I do not like discussing the Bible and I think it should be put on the bookshelf. I seem to be in the minority among Baha'is who teach on forums regarding this matter, but I am outspoken about it. In God Passes By Shoghi Effendi said that the Revelation of Baha'u'llah unconditionally abrogates all dispensations gone before it. I am sorry people don't like that but it is Reality.
Umm...whoa...do you think you could quote that one for me? I believe that he may have said something to the effect of abrogation, but saying that the Bible should be "put on the bookshelf," as in ignored? Wow. That's an attitude that is sure to build walls. If you can't see the value in the supreme revelation of God that was valid for thousands of years, that attitude is going to ooze through everything you try to communicate, and shoot attempts at unity in the foot. I imagine it would be abject arrogance in the eyes of Christians.

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish, as your attitude sounds similar to a colonist missionary trying to extinguish the old faith of the natives they want to convert. It's kind of scary really, and seems utterly opposed to all attempts at spreading the Baha'i faith I've ever encountered....thank God! I might never have accepted Baha'u'llah if I ran into such an attitude among Baha'is.

Perhaps it is time to humbly study the teachings of the Bible, and begin to see value in what it has to offer. Find connections and build bridges, not invisible walls in your heart. There are many, many important spiritual lessons to be learned from the Bible that will be completely valid throughout the Baha'i era. As a former Christian, I almost feel pity for you that cannot seem to find value in the Bible. Do you have the same attitude toward the Qur'an, the teachings of the Buddha or Krishna, or, for that matter, the Bab? Really, even the religions of various native populations across the globe that don't stem from major Manifestations are given serious credibility among Baha'is. Their perspectives are highly valued and offer many contributions in the context of the Baha'i faith.

My advice: Back off from the "Baha'i supremacy" angle and try to build unity. You'll find that people of other faiths are far more receptive.

Other than that, good question in the original post. I've always wondered about the "Prince of this World" thing and I like the answers and perspectives that have been offered in this thread.
 
Jul 2017
442
Olympia, WA, USA
#17
Umm...whoa...do you think you could quote that one for me?
“In conclusion of this theme, I feel, it should be stated that the Revelation identified with Bahá’u’lláh abrogates unconditionally all the Dispensations gone before it, upholds uncompromisingly the eternal verities they enshrine, recognizes firmly and absolutely the Divine origin of their Authors, preserves inviolate the sanctity of their authentic Scriptures, disclaims any intention of lowering the status of their Founders or of abating the spiritual ideals they inculcate, clarifies and correlates their functions, reaffirms their common, their unchangeable and fundamental purpose, reconciles their seemingly divergent claims and doctrines, readily and gratefully recognizes their respective contributions to the gradual unfoldment of one Divine Revelation, unhesitatingly acknowledges itself to be but one link in the chain of continually progressive Revelations, supplements their teachings with such laws and ordinances as conform to the imperative needs, and are dictated by the growing receptivity, of a fast evolving and constantly changing society, and proclaims its readiness and ability to fuse and incorporate the contending sects and factions into which they have fallen into a universal Fellowship, functioning within the framework, and in accordance with the precepts, of a divinely conceived, a world-unifying, a world-redeeming Order.” God Passes By, p. 100
I believe that he may have said something to the effect of abrogation, but saying that the Bible should be "put on the bookshelf," as in ignored? Wow.
No, it does not say that, I said that, and it is just my personal opinion, owing to the fact that I have seen the unspeakable damage the Bible has done to people of all faiths and especially to nonbelievers.

Shoghi Effendi makes it clear that the older religions will never be abrogated, since they are all from God. It is their Dispensations that have been abrogated, not the religions.

“Let no one, however, mistake my purpose. The Revelation, of which Bahá’u’lláh is the source and center, abrogates none of the religions that have preceded it, nor does it attempt, in the slightest degree, to distort their features or to belittle their value. It disclaims any intention of dwarfing any of the Prophets of the past, or of whittling down the eternal verity of their teachings. It can, in no wise, conflict with the spirit that animates their claims, nor does it seek to undermine the basis of any man’s allegiance to their cause. Its declared, its primary purpose is to enable every adherent of these Faiths to obtain a fuller understanding of the religion with which he stands identified, and to acquire a clearer apprehension of its purpose. It is neither eclectic in the presentation of its truths, nor arrogant in the affirmation of its claims. Its teachings revolve around the fundamental principle that religious truth is not absolute but relative, that Divine Revelation is progressive, not final. Unequivocally and without the least reservation it proclaims all established religions to be divine in origin, identical in their aims, complementary in their functions, continuous in their purpose, indispensable in their value to mankind.” The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh, pp, 57-58
That's an attitude that is sure to build walls. If you can't see the value in the supreme revelation of God that was valid for thousands of years, that attitude is going to ooze through everything you try to communicate, and shoot attempts at unity in the foot. I imagine it would be abject arrogance in the eyes of Christians.
I do not say this to Christians but obviously if they read here they could see what I said, and I would have no problem explaining why I wrote it. Christianity was valid for less than thousands of years, because when Muhammad appeared Islam abrogated the Dispensation Christianity.

Jews believe that the Torah is the supreme revelation of God and Muslims believe that the Qur’an is the supreme revelation of God and Christians believe that the New Testament is the supreme revelation of God and Baha’is believe the Revelation of Baha’u’llah is the supreme revelation of God. All of them are supreme but only one can stand in any age if there is ever to be world unity. This is logic 101 stuff.

All I meant is that it is time for the Bible to be put on the bookshelf because the Dispensation of Moses and Jesus Christ and all former Revelations from God have been abrogated by the Revelation of Baha’u’llah. The context in which I speak is that unless those are put on the bookshelf nobody will ever recognize Baha’u’llah, or at the very least only a few people will... This is just a fact, not an opinion. I know because I have spent the last six years of my life on forums, 24/7, and I have posted to many Jews and Christians. They cling to their scriptures for dear life. That is understandable, but I really cannot talk to them anymore, so now I post mostly to agnostics and atheists.

Sure, a few Christians have become Baha’is, but it is only a small number compared to those who don’t. Most Christians are waiting for Jesus to return, but Jesus is not coming back. The proof is all in the Bible but there is no point telling them that. No Christian I have even encountered has been willing to look at the prophecies that prove that Baha’u’llah was the return of Christ. They just want what they want. They want the same man Jesus to return from the sky on a cloud.

As long as people continue to cling to the older religions the Baha’i Faith will never grow. The main reason the Baha’i Faith has not grown is because of this clinging to the past religions. All one needs is some simple math abilities and some knowledge of psychology to understand why the Baha’i Faith has not grown any faster than it has. According to these statistics, 84 percent of the world population has a faith. If most all of those people are happy with their faith, how is the Baha’i Faith ever going to grow, or does that even matter? According to Baha’u’llah, it matters:

“My object is none other than the betterment of the world and the tranquillity of its peoples. The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 286

The other context in which I speak is that there is nothing in the Bible that we need in today’s world and there is a lot in the Bible that is very harmful to people. We have everything we need in the Revelation of Baha’u’llah.

Also, and this is very important, one of the main reasons atheists exist is because of the Bible. It is high time they realize that it is not the only Word of God. Anyone who reads the Old Testament and believes God did those things it says He did is not ever going to believe in God and I do not blame them one bit. I could never believe in God based upon the Bible.

Why are we still talking about a book that is thousands of years old when we have since had three *new* Revelations from God, the Revelation of Muhammad and the Revelations of the Bab and Baha’u’llah? Why, because people refuse to let go of the past and move on.
Not sure what you're trying to accomplish, as your attitude sounds similar to a colonist missionary trying to extinguish the old faith of the natives they want to convert. It's kind of scary really, and seems utterly opposed to all attempts at spreading the Baha'i faith I've ever encountered....thank God! I might never have accepted Baha'u'llah if I ran into such an attitude among Baha'is.
I am not trying to convert anyone and I do not talk much to Christians anymore. I was never a Christian and I do not know much about the Bible, just enough to know that some of the Bible is dangerous to one’s mental health.
Perhaps it is time to humbly study the teachings of the Bible, and begin to see value in what it has to offer. Find connections and build bridges, not invisible walls in your heart.
Why would I not study all the other religions like Buddhism and Hinduism and especially Islam? Why the Bible? Are Hindus and Buddhists and Muslims also supposed to study the Bible?

I do not have any walls I have put up in my heart. The walls are put up by Christians. Just go to some forums I post on and you will see the walls. I am not going to bother to try to cross those walls anymore.
There are many, many important spiritual lessons to be learned from the Bible that will be completely valid throughout the Baha'i era. As a former Christian, I almost feel pity for you that cannot seem to find value in the Bible.
I find value in anything that is a teaching of Jesus, the wonderful parables, etc., but that is not what the Bible is about. It is about a lot more than that. As a Christian, can you explain why God wiped out so many people? It is difficult for me to even believe in a God like that, so even though I know what Baha’u’llah wrote about God, I cannot get past the atrocities in the Old Testament.
Do you have the same attitude toward the Qur'an, the teachings of the Buddha or Krishna, or, for that matter, the Bab? Really, even the religions of various native populations across the globe that don't stem from major Manifestations are given serious credibility among Baha'is. Their perspectives are highly valued and offer many contributions in the context of the Baha'i faith.
The spiritual verities of ALL those religions are essentially the same as what Baha’u’llah revealed and they are eternal. I have no attitude towards those teachings of other religions except of awe and respect. What I said about the Bible does not apply to the spiritual teachings, it applies to the made up stories that people believe in literally, like the flood, the resurrection and the ascension. Then of course there are all the atrocities God supposedly committed in the Old Testament and all the cruel outdated laws in the Old Testament.
My advice: Back off from the "Baha'i supremacy" angle and try to build unity. You'll find that people of other faiths are far more receptive.
My advice to you is not jump to conclusions about me from one little comment I made about putting the Bible on the bookshelf. It is always best to ask someone what they meant before jumping to conclusions. You might still disagree with me, but at least you won’t be making a straw man.

I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else, but I hope I have explained where I am coming from. I always like to hear from Christians who became Baha’is to try to understand why they did so, so please feel free to share.

I try to build bridges day and night. I do not believe that Baha’is are *better* than anyone else, but I do believe what Baha’u’llah wrote because I believe He was infallible.

Regarding the Old Testament, Baha’u’llah wrote:

“Moreover, it is not Our wish to relate the stories of the days that are past. God is Our witness that what We even now mention is due solely to Our tender affection for thee, that haply the poor of the earth may attain the shores of the sea of wealth, the ignorant be led unto the ocean of divine knowledge, and they that thirst for understanding partake of the Salsabíl of divine wisdom. Otherwise, this servant regardeth the consideration of such records a grave mistake and a grievous transgression.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 62-63

Regarding the books of old, Baha’u’llah wrote:

“Please God thou wilt turn thine eyes towards the Most Great Revelation, and entirely disregard these conflicting tales and traditions.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 174-175
 
Jul 2017
442
Olympia, WA, USA
#18
If you don't want to talk to Jews, Christian or Muslims, you are discarding half the world's population...
I do not want to talk to them if they do not want to talk to me because it yields no fruits and only causes disharmony.

I do not discard anyone, they discard me, because I am a Baha'i with a *new religion* that is a threat to them.

But I am very exited because I have a new friend who is a Shia Muslim who does not discard me like a piece of trash just because I am a Baha'i. There is one liberal Jewish poster who has been very friendly to me and she has ben inquisitive about the Baha'i Faith, but I am sad to say that I have never had such an experience with a Christian. There are some Christians I am cordial with but if the subject of religion comes up there is no talking to them about Baha'i without getting into a dispute eventually.
 
Dec 2018
8
United States
#19
Jews believe that the Torah is the supreme revelation of God and Muslims believe that the Qur’an is the supreme revelation of God and Christians believe that the New Testament is the supreme revelation of God and Baha’is believe the Revelation of Baha’u’llah is the supreme revelation of God. All of them are supreme but only one can stand in any age if there is ever to be world unity. This is logic 101 stuff.
Okay, let's try logic 201. Do you really think it's logical that religion should be treated like a zero sum game? Because that's exactly what you're doing. You're saying that the only possible way the Baha'i faith can succeed is for all others to be eradicated--if I understand you correctly, which I hope I am not. "Unity" and "uniformity" are separate words for a reason. They do not mean the same thing.

All I meant is that it is time for the Bible to be put on the bookshelf because the Dispensation of Moses and Jesus Christ and all former Revelations from God have been abrogated by the Revelation of Baha’u’llah. The context in which I speak is that unless those are put on the bookshelf nobody will ever recognize Baha’u’llah, or at the very least only a few people will... This is just a fact, not an opinion. I know because I have spent the last six years of my life on forums, 24/7, and I have posted to many Jews and Christians. They cling to their scriptures for dear life. That is understandable, but I really cannot talk to them anymore, so now I post mostly to agnostics and atheists.
The other context in which I speak is that there is nothing in the Bible that we need in today’s world and there is a lot in the Bible that is very harmful to people. We have everything we need in the Revelation of Baha’u’llah.
I cannot begin to express what an unspeakably horrible attitude this is. Nothing in the Bible is needed? In one sentence you engage in wholesale devaluation of of multiple Manifestations and all of the wisdom their followers have accrued over most of recorded history. And you still wonder why you cannot make headway among Jews and Christians? This is why I said you sound like a colonist missionary. It is like you are trying to find the right phrases and tactics to turn the "ignorant, misguided and uncultured heathens" to the ways of the civilized Baha'i faith, all the while showing no respect for the value present in old traditions. Seriously, when's the last time you asked yourself what genuinely positive values Jews and Christians have brought and continue to bring to the world? If you can see nothing, then you are willfully blind.

Think about it. If all you ever hear from someone is how horrible you are, are you ever going to take their opinion seriously? If you do, you will be in a state of perpetual self-loathing, but more likely you will (quite rightfully) tell them to go to hell. (But since Baha'is don't except the reality of hell, I'm going to assume you are immune to that statement.)

Why are we still talking about a book that is thousands of years old when we have since had three *new* Revelations from God, the Revelation of Muhammad and the Revelations of the Bab and Baha’u’llah? Why, because people refuse to let go of the past and move on.
How old are you? Because you sound like a teenager who sees no value in the opinions of older generations because they are not cool. If you insist that which is aged cannot have value, you sound...young.

I don't know where to find the quote, and I'm not going to look it up now, but I distinctly recall Shoghi Effendi explicitly stating that it is the responsibility of Baha'is to familiarize themselves with the Qur'an. Why would he do that if the old revelations had no value?

I am not trying to convert anyone and I do not talk much to Christians anymore. I was never a Christian and I do not know much about the Bible, just enough to know that some of the Bible is dangerous to one’s mental health.
Willful blindness. Absolute, willful blindness. It tells me you have made no sincere attempts to understand Christianity at all, which is a likely explanation for the root of your failure to connect with Christians. It tells me all you have focused on is the worst of things. Have you ever even read the Bible, or do you just rely on what others have said? Have you ever read the Gospels, and seriously asked yourself how its teachings could apply to your life?

Why would I not study all the other religions like Buddhism and Hinduism and especially Islam? Why the Bible? Are Hindus and Buddhists and Muslims also supposed to study the Bible?
Okay. Let's go with this. Why not study all the other religions? Do you? You sound like you don't. Consorting with other religions in a state of fellowship does not merely mean talking about Baha'i until they agree with you. It means learning and understanding other points of view, to see things from perspectives that are not your own. It sounds to me like you cling to your perspective quite tenaciously, just as ardently as any non-Baha'i you like to discredit.

I do not have any walls I have put up in my heart. The walls are put up by Christians. Just go to some forums I post on and you will see the walls. I am not going to bother to try to cross those walls anymore.
After all you have written, I almost cannot believe that you believe this. It tells me you are living a religious life entirely devoid of self-reflection. Do you ever listen to yourself? You won't even take the time to find anything positive about whole religions and cultures, and you claim to have no walls put up in your heart? Are Jews and Christians conspiring so effectively to present to you no positive value in their existence that it is beyond your control? No, you do not have mere walls you have built in your heart, you have fortifications. They have become prisons you blame others for building, completely refusing to acknowledge your own choices and the work of your own hands.

I have no attitude towards those teachings of other religions except of awe and respect. What I said about the Bible does not apply to the spiritual teachings, it applies to the made up stories that people believe in literally, like the flood, the resurrection and the ascension. Then of course there are all the atrocities God supposedly committed in the Old Testament and all the cruel outdated laws in the Old Testament.
Well, at least you take the time to see some value, but saying that you have "no attitude...except of awe and respect" sounds rather disingenuous at this point, don't you think?

My advice to you is not jump to conclusions about me from one little comment I made about putting the Bible on the bookshelf. It is always best to ask someone what they meant before jumping to conclusions. You might still disagree with me, but at least you won’t be making a straw man.
The attitudes that I feared were behind that comment have been confirmed, actually. I am sorry I was right.


I try to build bridges day and night. I do not believe that Baha’is are *better* than anyone else, but I do believe what Baha’u’llah wrote because I believe He was infallible.
I believe you believe you are trying to build bridges, by continuously telling people how to start on their side of the river. Perhaps you should try starting on your own side. Pick a non-Baha'i religion, any religion, and read the scriptures and study it for a while. Considering your issues with the Bible, I suggest starting with Judaism or Christianity. Take time to find the value in the spiritual teachings, which are the true elements of importance within them. Don't be so dismayed with stories from times before thorough historical or scientific study. The spiritual teachings will still apply. Human beings haven't changed all that much, despite how newer generations so fashionably despise the old.


Regarding the Old Testament, Baha’u’llah wrote:

“Moreover, it is not Our wish to relate the stories of the days that are past. God is Our witness that what We even now mention is due solely to Our tender affection for thee, that haply the poor of the earth may attain the shores of the sea of wealth, the ignorant be led unto the ocean of divine knowledge, and they that thirst for understanding partake of the Salsabíl of divine wisdom. Otherwise, this servant regardeth the consideration of such records a grave mistake and a grievous transgression.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 62-63

Regarding the books of old, Baha’u’llah wrote:

“Please God thou wilt turn thine eyes towards the Most Great Revelation, and entirely disregard these conflicting tales and traditions.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 174-175
Very clever. Now, are you going to use these quotes as further bricks for the walls in your heart? Or are you going to see them as an opportunity to look beyond superficialities and see the inherent dignity and worth of older revelations that God fully meant to put on this earth?
 
Jul 2017
442
Olympia, WA, USA
#20
Okay, let's try logic 201. Do you really think it's logical that religion should be treated like a zero sum game? Because that's exactly what you're doing. You're saying that the only possible way the Baha'i faith can succeed is for all others to be eradicated--if I understand you correctly, which I hope I am not. "Unity" and "uniformity" are separate words for a reason. They do not mean the same thing.
That is a straw man. I never said anything about eradication. Those are your words. I said that there can never be world unity as long as all the different religions are fighting with each other over which one is right.
I cannot begin to express what an unspeakably horrible attitude this is. Nothing in the Bible is needed? In one sentence you engage in wholesale devaluation of of multiple Manifestations and all of the wisdom their followers have accrued over most of recorded history.
Another straw man. I did not devalue ANY Manifestations of God or the wisdom their followers have accrued over most of recorded history.

I said: “The context in which I speak is that unless those are put on the bookshelf nobody will ever recognize Baha’u’llah, or at the very least only a few people will...” This is just a logical fact; it is not a personal opinion. People who are Jews or Christians are not going to ALSO be Baha’is. As long as they cling to the past they are going to reject Baha’u’llah. Moreover, these religions as they are practiced and believed in are no longer the Truth from God, they are counterfeits and imitations. As Abdu’l-Baha wrote:

“True religion is the source of love and agreement amongst men, the cause of the development of praiseworthy qualities; but the people are holding to the counterfeit and imitation, negligent of the reality which unifies; so they are bereft and deprived of the radiance of religion. They follow superstitions inherited from their fathers and ancestors. To such an extent has this prevailed that they have taken away the heavenly light of divine truth and sit in the darkness of imitations and imaginations.” (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Foundations of World Unity, p. 71)

Below is the entire passage:

“Alas! that humanity is completely submerged in imitations and unrealities notwithstanding the truth of divine religion has ever remained the same. Superstitions have obscured the fundamental reality, the world is darkened and the light of religion is not apparent. This darkness is conducive to differences and dissensions; rites and dogmas are many and various; therefore discord has arisen among the religious systems whereas religion is for the unification of mankind. True religion is the source of love and agreement amongst men, the cause of the development of praiseworthy qualities; but the people are holding to the counterfeit and imitation, negligent of the reality which unifies; so they are bereft and deprived of the radiance of religion. They follow superstitions inherited from their fathers and ancestors. To such an extent has this prevailed that they have taken away the heavenly light of divine truth and sit in the darkness of imitations and imaginations. That which was meant to be conducive to life has become the cause of death; that which should have been an evidence of knowledge is now a proof of ignorance; that which was a factor in the sublimity of human nature has proved to be its degradation. Therefore the realm of the religionist has gradually narrowed and darkened and the sphere of the materialist has widened and advanced; for the religionist has held to imitation and counterfeit, neglecting and discarding holiness and the sacred reality of religion. When the sun sets it is the time for bats to fly. They come forth because they are creatures of the night. When the lights of religion become darkened the materialists appear. They are the bats of night. The decline of religion is their time of activity; they seek the shadows when the world is darkened and clouds have spread over it.” (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Foundations of World Unity, p. 71)
And you still wonder why you cannot make headway among Jews and Christians? This is why I said you sound like a colonist missionary. It is like you are trying to find the right phrases and tactics to turn the "ignorant, misguided and uncultured heathens" to the ways of the civilized Baha'i faith, all the while showing no respect for the value present in old traditions. Seriously, when's the last time you asked yourself what genuinely positive values Jews and Christians have brought and continue to bring to the world? If you can see nothing, then you are willfully blind.
You are making a straw man telling me I have no respect for the value present in old traditions. Those are all your words. I never said any of that. But just read what Abdu’l-Baha wrote above and then tell me why I should value those old traditions. Then read what Baha’u’llah wrote about those old traditions. Take special note of the part in bold. Do you think you know more than Baha’u’llah?

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination. Thou dost witness how most of the commentaries and interpretations of the words of God, now current amongst men, are devoid of truth. Their falsity hath, in some cases, been exposed when the intervening veils were rent asunder. They themselves have acknowledged their failure in apprehending the meaning of any of the words of God.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 171-172

All of what you bring up is unrelated to what I was saying. I was not talking about positive values Jews and Christians have brought and continue to bring to the world. Of course they have brought positive values but that is a separate subject altogether.

I am not trying to make headway. I already said that. I just share the Baha’i Faith if the topic comes up on a forum. I have no tactics because I am not trying to convert anyone. Since you have no idea what I have encountered on forums you should not even be speaking about it as if you know.
Think about it. If all you ever hear from someone is how horrible you are, are you ever going to take their opinion seriously? If you do, you will be in a state of perpetual self-loathing, but more likely you will (quite rightfully) tell them to go to hell. (But since Baha'is don't except the reality of hell, I'm going to assume you are immune to that statement.)
Another straw man. I never told anyone they were horrible. They are the ones telling me I am horrible, lost, a follower of Satan, and I am going to hell. All I ever do is state what I believe as a Baha’i. I do not comment on their beliefs as they comment upon mine.
How old are you? Because you sound like a teenager who sees no value in the opinions of older generations because they are not cool. If you insist that which is aged cannot have value, you sound...young.
Another straw man. I never said that which is aged has no value. But you do not need to listen to anything I say. Just read what Abdu’l-Baha and Baha’u’llah wrote. Do you think you know more than they do?
I don't know where to find the quote, and I'm not going to look it up now, but I distinctly recall Shoghi Effendi explicitly stating that it is the responsibility of Baha'is to familiarize themselves with the Qur'an. Why would he do that if the old revelations had no value?
Another straw man. Where did I ever say that the old revelations had no value? I just wondered out loud what we are talking about the Bible constantly, when we have had when we have since had three *new* Revelations from God since that time. Of course it is recommended that Baha’is familiarize themselves with the Qur’an. The Qur’an is at least authentic, the Bible is not.

From Letters Written on Behalf of the Guardian:

...The Bible is not wholly authentic, and in this respect is not to be compared with the Qur'an, and should be wholly subordinated to the authentic writings of Bahá'u'lláh.
(28 July 1936 to a National Spiritual Assembly)

...we cannot be sure how much or how little of the four Gospels are accurate and include the words of Christ and His undiluted teachings, all we can be sure of, as Bahá'ís, is that what has been quoted by Bahá'u'lláh and the Master must be absolutely authentic. As many times passages in the Gospel of St. John are quoted we may assume that it is his Gospel and much of it accurate.
(23 January 1944 to an individual believer)

When 'Abdu'l-Bahá states we believe what is in the Bible, He means in substance. Not that we believe every word of it to be taken literally or that every word is the authentic saying of the Prophet.
(11 February 1944 to an individual believer)

We cannot be sure of the authenticity of any of the phrases in the Old or the New Testament. What we can be sure of is when such references or words are cited or quoted in either the Quran or the Bahá'í writings.​
Willful blindness. Absolute, willful blindness. It tells me you have made no sincere attempts to understand Christianity at all, which is a likely explanation for the root of your failure to connect with Christians. It tells me all you have focused on is the worst of things. Have you ever even read the Bible, or do you just rely on what others have said? Have you ever read the Gospels, and seriously asked yourself how its teachings could apply to your life?
Another straw man. Who do you think you are to call me willfully blind? I have made many sincere attempts to connect with Christians and understand Christianity. The evidence is all on the forums I have frequented for six years. I have also read many parts of the Bible. I do not take anyone’s word for anything. Did you hear a single thing I said before: I find value in anything that is a teaching of Jesus, the wonderful parables, etc., but that is not what the Bible is about.

I do not need the teachings in the Gospels to know how to live my life. I have the teachings of Baha’u’llah.

Let’s look at a few little things Jesus said, that were posted to me on another forum:

Matthew 13:38-42 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

This is what Christians post to atheists when they threaten them. I do not make these things up. It is all on the forums. Apparently you are just unaware what goes on in real life. These are human beings with feelings and they are told they are going to hell constantly. I am also told I am going to hell because I do not believe in the same Jesus they believe in, the Jesus of Christianity that the Church created, which is not the real Jesus.
Okay. Let's go with this. Why not study all the other religions? Do you? You sound like you don't. Consorting with other religions in a state of fellowship does not merely mean talking about Baha'i until they agree with you. It means learning and understanding other points of view, to see things from perspectives that are not your own. It sounds to me like you cling to your perspective quite tenaciously, just as ardently as any non-Baha'i you like to discredit.
Another straw man. I do not even try to get anyone to agree with me -- ever. I just share what I believe and listen to what others believe or disbelieve. I know other points of view and other religions because I have spent every waking hour when not at work on forums for the last six years on various forums listening to what other people believe and disbelieve.

I do not have time to study all the other religions. I have not even read all the Writings of the Baha’i Faith yet.

I do not have a personal perspective. I adhere to the Writings of the Baha’i Faith. It is all there for you to read. What about the word abrogated do you not understand?

Another straw man. I am not discrediting anyone.
After all you have written, I almost cannot believe that you believe this. It tells me you are living a religious life entirely devoid of self-reflection. Do you ever listen to yourself? You won't even take the time to find anything positive about whole religions and cultures, and you claim to have no walls put up in your heart?
How do you know what I have done in my life? How arrogant. You do not know me from Adam. Yet you speak for me as if you know my heart and mind. Do you ever listen to yourself? Self-reflection? I spent 20 years in counseling and 12-step programs before I even considered myself of being worthy to be a Baha’i.

I do not take the time to find anything positive about whole religions and cultures? I do not have the time to learn about whole religions and cultures. I have a full time job and many other responsibilities, and given the injunctions set forth by Baha’u’llah, I consider it more important to proclaim and teach His Cause than to read about other religions and cultures. Have you ever read what Baha’u’llah has enjoined us to do?

“O ye beloved of God! Repose not yourselves on your couches, nay bestir yourselves as soon as ye recognize your Lord, the Creator, and hear of the things which have befallen Him, and hasten to His assistance. Unloose your tongues, and proclaim unceasingly His Cause. This shall be better for you than all the treasures of the past and of the future, if ye be of them that comprehend this truth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 330
Are Jews and Christians conspiring so effectively to present to you no positive value in their existence that it is beyond your control? No, you do not have mere walls you have built in your heart, you have fortifications. They have become prisons you blame others for building, completely refusing to acknowledge your own choices and the work of your own hands.
I have fortifications. How do you know that? You do not know me; you just think you do, from a few words I posted on a forum that you disagree with. That is so arrogant. Why can't you just respectfully disagree, why do you have to criticize me like this?

I did not blame anyone for anything. I merely pointed out how people behave on forums but I did not ascribe blame. You are the one doing all the criticizing and blaming. Accusing me of that is called Projection.
Well, at least you take the time to see some value, but saying that you have "no attitude...except of awe and respect" sounds rather disingenuous at this point, don't you think?
No, I do not think, and it is not your job to think for me. Calling me disingenuous, I expect this from an atheist but not from a Baha’i. Do you even know what is in the Baha'i Writings?

66: O EMIGRANTS! The tongue I have designed for the mention of Me, defile it not with detraction. If the fire of self overcome you, remember your own faults and not the faults of My creatures, inasmuch as every one of you knoweth his own self better than he knoweth others. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 45
“The most hateful characteristic of man is fault-finding.” (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Star of the West, Vol. IV, No.11, p. 192)​
“O ye Cohorts of God! Beware lest ye offend the feelings of anyone, or sadden the heart of any person, or move the tongue in reproach of and finding fault with anybody, whether he is friend or stranger, believer or enemy.” Tablets of Abdul-Baha Abbas, p. 45
The attitudes that I feared were behind that comment have been confirmed, actually. I am sorry I was right.
You are sorry you were right? Confirmed by what? How do you think you know these things? Are you God?
I believe you believe you are trying to build bridges, by continuously telling people how to start on their side of the river. Perhaps you should try starting on your own side. Pick a non-Baha'i religion, any religion, and read the scriptures and study it for a while.

Considering your issues with the Bible, I suggest starting with Judaism or Christianity. Take time to find the value in the spiritual teachings, which are the true elements of importance within them. Don't be so dismayed with stories from times before thorough historical or scientific study. The spiritual teachings will still apply. Human beings haven't changed all that much, despite how newer generations so fashionably despise the old.
Another straw man. I do not continuously tell people how to start on their side of the river. I do not have time to study another religion. I do not need to read the spiritual teachings of older religions because I have the spiritual teachings of the Baha’i Faith.
Very clever. Now, are you going to use these quotes as further bricks for the walls in your heart? Or are you going to see them as an opportunity to look beyond superficialities and see the inherent dignity and worth of older revelations that God fully meant to put on this earth?
How do you think you know that I have not looked beyond superficialities to see the inherent dignity and worth of older revelations that God fully meant to put on this earth? Did I ever say I have not dome that, or do you just assume you know?

I am not trying to be clever and I do not use the quotes to build walls in my heart. I have no walls in my heart. I use the quotes to know the Truth from God. Why not just listen to what Baha’u’llah wrote about the older religions? Do you know more than Baha’u’llah?