We need to consult, can we?

Jan 2012
719
China
Many environmental issues tie into each other.
Exactly. Intuitively, I think it might be important to have some discussions where we consider each issue separately. One reason might be that it would bring up questions and possibilities that might not come up when we think about them all together. Then after we've considered them separately, consider them all together. We might need to go back and forth between those approaches, continually, to get the best results from our discussions.
 
Jan 2012
719
China
A while back I was doing a building's heating/AC design calcs and called out insultion thickness. The boss reduced the thickness saying that congress just passed a new 'energy saving' law the required buildings to be designed for lower temps in the winter and higher summer temps. My thicker insulation was based on the older codes requiring more comfortable temps that most people set the thermostats for. I argued that most people would set the thermostats at normal temps and thinner insulation would waste energy. I argued that even if the temperature police reset stats to legal temps the thinner insulation would still waste energy. My boss said that if we didn't use thin insulation both he and I would go to jail.

What ended up happening was the 'energy-saving' law forced designers to make buildings that wasted energy. This is why when we "have not studied it in depth" we need to study first and then make laws after.Words like those have ended up being misused to further partisan political ends --we can see them used in ways to not only promote an aura of superiority, but also to bring about actions causing resource shortages and increased toxic waste. Example: electric cars require power plants to push for more coal mining and fracking, and they end up filling dumps w/ caustic heavy metal batteries.
That's an example of where I see a need for improving how decision makers and policy makers make decisions, rather than trying to influence specifically what they decide. The competition for influencing specific policy decisions will rarely be won by the people with the best ideas. I think that what is needed is for decision makers and policy makers to learn better ways of making decisions, and to ignore campaigns of denunciation and intimidation trying to influence their decisions. Where and how are they going to learn that, I wonder. :think:

A thought just came to me that if any Baha'is should be consulting about specific policy recommendations for governments and other institutions, it should be spiritual assemblies, at the request of those governments and institutions, and not just any random self-selected group of Baha'is. Something I said earlier has come more into focus for me. I would like for anyone in this discussion who is willing, to talk about what you've been trying and hoping to do in the framework for action that the House of Justice has been promoting: community building, social action, and involvement in the discourses of society. I will do that also if anyone would like me to. Then I would like to just try to appreciate and value what each person is trying and hoping to do, which might take some time and effort for me, as Tony might have noticed. :halo: Then maybe, the next thing would be for each of us to just describe our thoughts and feelings about climate change and what to do about it, without thinking that we have to bring any of our ideas into agreement. Then we might talk about safe and healthy ways for each of us to bring our ideas with us into whatever we're doing for community building, social action, and involvement in the discourses of society.

I'm thinking of our different views as being like orthogonal projections, or like different flat map projections of the earth's surface. I don't think that everything we need to consider can be encompassed by any one view. I really think it would be better for consultation purposes if we could all look at everything from all our points of view, each of us seeing and feeling what each of the others are seeing and feeling, but if anyone can't do that, then maybe we can at least allow the possibility that there's some value in each person's point of view, and encourage and support each other in learning safe and healthy ways of bringing our views with us into whatever we're doing for community building, social action, and involvement in the discourses of society.
 
Jan 2012
719
China
But, not sure we should try and go beyond that to use science to reverse climate change. We don't know what the possible side effects of any such large scale action would be no matter how many simulation models they project.
I think that applies even to reducing carbon emissions or whatever other ways people are promoting to stop or reduce climate change. I'm sure that there needs to be a lot more thought and consideration for the possible unintended effects of anything that anyone is promoting as a solution to any global problem. I don't think the problem of unintended side effects of any large scale actions has been that no one saw them coming. There have always been people who saw those side effects coming, and tried to warn us, but they were defamed and discredited by overpowering interests that benefited from the policies.
 
Jan 2012
719
China
My take is that the term may be great for faction combat but it's no longer any use for getting work done.
I see that in all the debates about all social issues. I think it's impossible to have any fruitful discussion about any social issues without avoiding all the key words that people are using in those discussions, even if we have to use uncommon words or more words to say what we really mean. "Racism," "feminism," "orientation," "homosexuality," and even "man," "woman" and "social justice," are notorious examples of that.
 
Jan 2012
719
China
Here is unit 2 of the Wilmette course on climate change
I see a lot of factionalism in that, and what looks to me like a misunderstanding of the meaning of "science" in our scriptures, promoting blind faith in "scientific consensus," and trying to defame and discredit anyone who questions it. It grieves me a little to see that kind of bullying going on at the Wilmette Institute.
 
Jan 2012
719
China
Do you feel that the guidance coming from the UHJ or what Duane put up from the Wilmette course, harm the advancement of Cause ?
As I said above, I object to the blind faith in "scientific consensus," the misunderstanding of what "science" means in our scriptures, and the bullying, that I see in that document from the Wilmette institute.
 
Jan 2012
719
China
... our idea is to reveiw the Climate letter from the World Centre and see how the guidance bears on the public discourse as well as how following the Sacred Text relates to the subject.
Now I'm reading that letter again, with that in mind. A statement from the Baha'i International Environment forum (Baha'i International Community Seven Year Plan of Action on Climate Change), and one from the Baha'i International Community (Seizing the Opportunity: Redefining the challenge of climate change), relate climate change to sustainable development. Now I'm studying a compilation on sustainable development from the International Environment Forum.
 
May 2018
111
New Zealand
As I said above, I object to the blind faith in "scientific consensus," the misunderstanding of what "science" means in our scriptures, and the bullying, that I see in that document from the Wilmette institute.
What do you feel "science" means in Baha'i scripture ?
 
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Jan 2012
719
China
If a small number of people gather lovingly together, with absolute purity and sanctity, with their hearts free of the world, experiencing the emotions of the Kingdom and the powerful magnetic forces of the Divine, and being at one in their happy fellowship, that gathering will exert its influence over all the earth. The nature of that band of people, the words they speak, the deeds they do, will unleash the bestowals of Heaven, and provide a foretaste of eternal bliss. The hosts of the Company on high will defend them, and the angels of the Abhá Paradise, in continuous succession, will come down to their aid.
- “Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá”, (Haifa: Bahá’í World Centre, 1982), sec. 39, p. 81

I'm not posting that to preach. I'm posting it because of the possibilities I see in it, and that others might see in it. I'm not claiming to be able to live up to that, myself, but I'm hoping that it isn't all or nothing. Maybe if some of us are able to live up to that to some degree some of the time, then this gathering might exert some influence on some part of the earth; and the nature of our little band, the words we speak, the deeds we do might unleash some of the bestowals of Heaven. I'll just keep praying and praying for it to happen, and remembering the verse from scripture that I want to keep in mind, and what I've been reading about consultation, and my list of ideas to practice in Internet discussions. For the emotions of the Kingdom I'll be reading "From the sweet-scented streams ..."
 
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