What does this hidden word mean

Sep 2018
76
usa
#22
What I should have said is that we cannot ever know the Essence of God, but we know some attributes of God because of what Baha'u'llah revealed, so we can know that God is loving.
one way human tries to understand god, is by giving it human attributes and names, due to its low capacity of comprehension.
for example, if i was to explain god to an ant. i would say she lays infinite eggs, and has the longest antennas.
same as saying god is loving. Which is a human attribute.
 
Jul 2017
372
Olympia, WA, USA
#23
one way human tries to understand god, is by giving it human attributes and names, due to its low capacity of comprehension.
for example, if i was to explain god to an ant. i would say she lays infinite eggs, and has the longest antennas.
same as saying god is loving. Which is a human attribute.
I understand what you are saying and that helps a lot. We try to understand God in terms of what we can understand so we say God is loving, as if God could love the way we love, but we cannot know how God loves because God is unknowable.

Another way of saying this is that some people try to make God into a person so they can relate to Him as a person. This is more of a Christian thing than a Baha'i thing, but I think Baha'is also do it. From a psychological standpoint, most people want to feel loved so they say God is loving.
 
Likes: n0thing
Sep 2018
76
usa
#24
I understand what you are saying and that helps a lot. We try to understand God in terms of what we can understand so we say God is loving, as if God could love the way we love, but we cannot know how God loves because God is unknowable.

Another way of saying this is that some people try to make God into a person so they can relate to Him as a person. This is more of a Christian thing than a Baha'i thing, but I think Baha'is also do it. From a psychological standpoint, most people want to feel loved so they say God is loving.
exactly

that's whats beautiful about bahai faith,
gods revelation, is its concealment.
 
Likes: Trailblazer
Feb 2019
113
Chicago
#25
I understand what you are saying and that helps a lot. We try to understand God in terms of what we can understand so we say God is loving, as if God could love the way we love, but we cannot know how God loves because God is unknowable.

Another way of saying this is that some people try to make God into a person so they can relate to Him as a person. This is more of a Christian thing than a Baha'i thing, but I think Baha'is also do it. From a psychological standpoint, most people want to feel loved so they say God is loving.
What you say about love is true. All people want to love and be loved because God is always expressing love but the human nature interferes with the soul's nature of love and prevents people from expressing and experiencing love.

The Hindu scriptures teach that love is the reason Spirit created the cosmos which is why all scriptures and all prophets have taught us to purify our hearts and perfect our love for God and other people. It is also the reason why we all long for love. When there was no creation, Spirit didn't like being alone. So Spirit manifested creation from it's thought process and will power to become many and experience love. This is called the desireless desire of the Spirit. Bahaullah in Mathnaviyi-i-Mubarak said that there is nothing anywhere but Spirit which is a mystery that man has not understood. Spirit first became God the Father and Holy Ghost. Out of the latter came the physical creation after the former impregnated the latter with His seed of divine intelligence using the attractive force of love. The Divine intelligence permeated all creation as the Son. Since man is made in the image of God, the divine union between God and Holy Ghost is reflected in human beings as marriage in which a man and woman are drawn to each other by love and when they desire to have a child, the former impregnates the latter with his seed in an act of love. So love is the very basis of creation and love is very the reason creation exists.

Bahaullah gave the physical form of Houri to God and expressed his loving desire to unite with her in his mystical poems like the Ode of the Dove. There is nothing wrong in that approach. It is one of the many ways to God. It may be blasphemous for mainstream Islam, Christianity and Judaism but not for Hinduism and Sufism.
 
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Likes: Trailblazer
Feb 2019
113
Chicago
#26
I understand that you don't like the answer that suffering may be necessity, but the idea that suffering or pain is a necessary step for personal development across all religious traditions and most of the psychological disciplines that I am aware of. I'm not 100% sure why this is the case, as of yet, but I see it argued as an important part of human development cross-culturally by a wide variety of people, from religious leaders, to atheist psychologists.[/QUOTE. ]

Why is suffering needed? Think about it this way. If you have been imprisoned for any reason and you want to break free, you have no choice but to work hard in executing your plans to break free. That's not going to be easy. It will involve challenges and suffering. The reason I am giving this analogy is because most people who believe they are free are not really free and the goal of human life is to find spiritual freedom in God which comes by rising above human nature and knowing God or realizing God as stated in the short Obligatory prayer. The rising above human nature or giving up of human nature which is essentially a destruction of human nature is a painful process that involves a lot of suffering. It is not easy to give up human nature. Most people are so identified with human nature that they can't even distinguish it from the soul's divine nature. To begin with we will have to understand as Abdul Baha said that we have two nature's - one human and the other divine. The first one causes suffering because it is animalistic in kind where as the second one leads to freedom in Spirit. We need to recognize that we are essentially souls imprisoned in a human cage made of flesh and bones for we cannot leave and enter our physical bodies at will in a conscious and natural way. We are not free to control our mind, thoughts and feelings. We can't even control all the organs of our body. For example if I want my heart to stop beating for 5 minutes or stop my mind from thinking about what I like the most for a whole day or want to be continuously happy for a whole month, I may be unable to do it. In other words, we don't really have the freedom to do everything we want. Most people don't realize the truth that they are souls imprisoned in the physical body and human life is essentially three fold suffering - physical disease, mental worries and spiritual ignorance. To escape from this suffering permanently and manifest the soul's divine nature requires effort that also involves suffering since suffering is the very nature of this world. In the Bhagavad Gita, God says "Get away Arjuna from this ocean of suffering" referring to the nature of His creation.
 
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Jul 2017
372
Olympia, WA, USA
#27
What you say about love is true. All people want to love and be loved because God is always expressing love but the human nature interferes with the soul's nature of love and prevents people from expressing and experiencing love.

The Hindu scriptures teach that love is the reason Spirit created the cosmos which is why all scriptures and all prophets have taught us to purify our hearts and perfect our love for God and other people. It is also the reason why we all long for love. When there was no creation, Spirit didn't like being alone. So Spirit manifested creation from it's thought process and will power to become many and experience love. This is called the desireless desire of the Spirit. Bahaullah in Mathnaviyi-i-Mubarak said that there is nothing anywhere but Spirit which is a mystery that man has not understood. Spirit first became God the Father and Holy Ghost. Out of the latter came the physical creation after the former impregnated the latter with His seed of divine intelligence using the attractive force of love. The Divine intelligence permeated all creation as the Son. Since man is made in the image of God, the divine union between God and Holy Ghost is reflected in human beings as marriage in which a man and woman are drawn to each other by love and when they desire to have a child, the former impregnates the latter with his seed in an act of love. So love is the very basis of creation and love is very the reason creation exists.

Bahaullah gave the physical form of Houri to God and expressed his loving desire to unite with her in his mystical poems like the Ode of the Dove. There is nothing wrong in that approach. It is one of the many ways to God. It may be blasphemous for mainstream Islam, Christianity and Judaism but not for Hinduism and Sufism.
I see you know a lot about religions, not just the Baha’i Faith. I was never very interested in religion, so I do not know much about religions other than Baha’i. I have learned about Christianity only from posting on forums and then having the need to look up Bible verses. I wish I knew more about Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism, but time is limited.

Speaking of love, of course you know what the Hidden Words say about that...

3: O SON OF MAN! Veiled in My immemorial being and in the ancient eternity of My essence, I knew My love for thee; therefore I created thee, have engraved on thee Mine image and revealed to thee My beauty.
4: O SON OF MAN! I loved thy creation, hence I created thee. Wherefore, do thou love Me, that I may name thy name and fill thy soul with the spirit of life.
5: O SON OF BEING! Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 4

6: O SON OF BEING! Thy Paradise is My love; thy heavenly home, reunion with Me. Enter therein and tarry not. This is that which hath been destined for thee in Our kingdom above and Our exalted dominion.
7: O SON OF MAN! If thou lovestMe, turn away from thyself; and if thou seekest My pleasure, regard not thine own; that thou mayest die in Me and I may eternally live in thee.
8: O SON OF SPIRIT! There is no peace for thee save by renouncing thyself and turning unto Me; for it behooveth thee to glory in My name, not in thine own; to put thy trust in Me and not in thyself, since I desire to be loved alone and above all that is.
9: O SON OF BEING! My love is My stronghold; he that entereth therein is safe and secure, and he that turneth away shall surely stray and perish.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 5


10: O SON OF UTTERANCE! Thou art My stronghold; enter therein that thou mayest abide in safety. My love is in thee, know it, that thou mayest find Me near unto thee.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 6


I want to share with you what Private Dowding said about love:

“I want to say a few words about love--very few, because I know so little. Also because love is spoken about too much already, whereas it should be lived. If you would dwell in peace, learn to love deeply. Never cease from loving. Jesus said a good deal about love, if I remember rightly. Look up what He said and live it.

Love God by pouring yourself away. Love your fellows by giving them all you possess of light and truth.

Love LOVE for her own blessed sake. Such love will bring you nearer heaven.

I have spoken about illusion several times. I return to it once more. I begin to see that phenomenal existence, whether on earth or here, is so impermanent as to be unreal. This is a hard saying. I do not yet understand it.

Live above those conditions which, after much meditation, appear to you to be illusory. That is the best advice I can give.”
Private Dowding, pp. 37-38
 
Jul 2017
372
Olympia, WA, USA
#28
Why is suffering needed? Think about it this way. If you have been imprisoned for any reason and you want to break free, you have no choice but to work hard in executing your plans to break free. That's not going to be easy. It will involve challenges and suffering. The reason I am giving this analogy is because most people who believe they are free are not really free and the goal of human life is to find spiritual freedom in God which comes by rising above human nature and knowing God or realizing God as stated in the short Obligatory prayer. The rising above human nature or giving up of human nature which is essentially a destruction of human nature is a painful process that involves a lot of suffering. It is not easy to give up human nature. Most people are so identified with human nature that they can't even distinguish it from the soul's divine nature. To begin with we will have to understand as Abdul Baha said that we have two nature's - one human and the other divine. The first one causes suffering because it is animalistic in kind where as the second one leads to freedom in Spirit. We need to recognize that we are essentially souls imprisoned in a human cage made of flesh and bones for we cannot leave and enter our physical bodies at will in a conscious and natural way. We are not free to control our mind, thoughts and feelings. We can't even control all the organs of our body. For example if I want my heart to stop beating for 5 minutes or stop my mind from thinking about what I like the most for a whole day or want to be continuously happy for a whole month, I may be unable to do it. In other words, we don't really have the freedom to do everything we want. Most people don't realize the truth that they are souls imprisoned in the physical body and human life is essentially three fold suffering - physical disease, mental worries and spiritual ignorance. To escape from this suffering permanently and manifest the soul's divine nature requires effort that also involves suffering since suffering is the very nature of this world. In the Bhagavad Gita, God says "Get away Arjuna from this ocean of suffering" referring to the nature of His creation.
All suffering comes from the material world, so simply put, the value of suffering is so we will not be attached to this material world...

I can certainly say it has worked for me in that regard.

Those who do not suffer much remain attached to this material world. I do not know if there will be consequences in the afterlife, only God knows.

It requires a lot of faith to not be attached to the only world that we know and can see and experience and sacrifice the pleasures of this world for an afterlife that we know little about.

Yet it is the best way for spiritual growth.
 
Feb 2019
113
Chicago
#29
All suffering comes from the material world, so simply put, the value of suffering is so we will not be attached to this material world...

I can certainly say it has worked for me in that regard.

Those who do not suffer much remain attached to this material world. I do not know if there will be consequences in the afterlife, only God knows.

It requires a lot of faith to not be attached to the only world that we know and can see and experience and sacrifice the pleasures of this world for an afterlife that we know little about.

Yet it is the best way for spiritual growth.
I agree. Detachment from the material world can help us better focus on communion with God which leads to inner joy, peace and bliss while we are still alive.
 
Feb 2019
113
Chicago
#30
Trailblazer,

Earlier I said the Hindu scriptures teach that love is the reason Spirit created the cosmos and Spirit wanted to experience love. The same truth is asserted by Bahaullah in the following words. Like the Bible and Hindu scriptures, Bahaullah also states that man is made in God's image.

Having created the world and all that liveth and moveth therein, He, through the direct operation of His unconstrained and sovereign Will, chose to confer upon man the unique distinction and capacity to know Him and to love Him—a capacity that must needs be regarded as the generating impulse and the primary purpose underlying the whole of creation.… Upon the inmost reality of each and every created thing He hath shed the light of one of His names, and made it a recipient of the glory of one of His attributes. Upon the reality of man, however, He hath focused the radiance of all of His names and attributes, and made it a mirror of His own Self. Alone of all created things man hath been singled out for so great a favor, so enduring a bounty. - Bahaullah

Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh | Bahá’í Reference Library

-Venu
 

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