Why is Baha’u’llah chosen over Subh I Azali?

Sep 2010
4,622
Normanton, Far North West Queensland
bahaullah is not the bab's successor.
bahaullah IS the bab.

i wish more people could be able to actually read the persian bayan, and comprehend many common misconceptions regarding this matter.
What do you mean he is The Bab?
Woah, are you able to provide a citation and maybe a translation for that one?? That's very interesting.

What do you mean by "is the Bab"??

Like in the sense of the Biblical Elisha and Elijah, where Elisha, the disciple of Elijah, effectively inherits the prophetic station and becomes Elijah when Elijah is brought up to Heaven??

Or is it more like when Muhammad says "I am Adam, Noah, Moses, and Jesus"??

Or are they the same in some other manner??
"...It behooveth you to await the Day of the appearance of Him Whom God shall manifest. Indeed My aim in planting the Tree of the Bayán hath been none other than to enable you to recognize Me. In truth I Myself am the first to bow down before God and to believe in Him. Therefore let not your recognition become fruitless, inasmuch as the Bayán, notwithstanding the sublimity of its station, beareth fealty to Him Whom God shall make manifest, and it is He Who beseemeth most to be acclaimed as the Seat of divine Reality, though indeed He is I and I am He. However, when the Tree of the Bayán attaineth its highest development, We shall bend it low as a token of adoration towards its Lord Who will appear in the person of Him Whom God shall make manifest. Perchance ye may be privileged to glorify God as it befitteth His august Self...."

As quoted above Me. "...In truth I Myself am the first to bow down before God and to believe in Him. Therefore let not your recognition become fruitless, inasmuch as the Bayán, notwithstanding the sublimity of its station, beareth fealty to Him Whom God shall make manifest, and it is He Who beseemeth most to be acclaimed as the Seat of divine Reality, though indeed He is I and I am He..."

Regards Tony
 
Jan 2020
7
Middle United States
I don’t believe that the Bab envisioned Baha’u’llah at all. What can you offer to support that assertion?
There is substantial support for that assertion from various lines in the Writings of the Bab where He alludes to years nine and nineteen, refers to Baha and Baha'u'llah numerous times. The Bab sent His first disciple in 1844 with a set of tasks that included delivering the news to a person to be found in Tehran who turned out to be Baha'u'llah and promised Mulla Husayn of the importance of that task and the person to whom Mulla Husayn was to deliver the news. The Bab says explicitly He recognized Him Whom God Shall Make Manifest in His Writings a number of times, including in the Persian Bayan and in a Tablet to Him Whom God Shall Make Manifest. This is well covered by Dr. Saiedi in Gate of the Heart, 2008. Baha'u'llah also addresses this in Kitab-i-Badi which is not translated (except limited provisional portions) but with the contents well-known and discussed.

Baha'u'llah's title was recognized by the Bab at the Conference of Badasht, and His authority was evident even then (although not the Manifestation at that time). The 13th Letter of the Living, Mulla Baqir, received a well-known Tablet from the Bab in answer to questions (from him and Siyyid Yahya) regarding Him Whom God Shall Make Manifest that the Mulla would meet and recognize Him Whom God Shall Make Manifest in year nine (written symbolically). Both Professor Lambden and Professor Saiedi have written papers on this table and translated portions. Mulla Baqir did meet and recognize Baha'u'llah in Baghdad as promised. After the Bab's execution, Mulla Baqir carried the seals of the Bab with a "tablet" with 360 variations of Baha written on it and arranged to have it delivered to Baha'u'llah.
For these reasons, E.G. Browne noted that 96% to 97% of all Babis (who survived) had become Baha'is (by the late 1880s) and Dr. Momem has written (in a few places) that at least 90% of Babis became Baha'is including the members of the Bab's family.
 
Jun 2014
1,111
Wisconsin
There is substantial support for that assertion from various lines in the Writings of the Bab where He alludes to years nine and nineteen, refers to Baha and Baha'u'llah numerous times.
Most of this is good support, but I wouldn't offer the Bab using the term "Baha" as support, given that that is the Greatest Name of God, not a reference to Baha'u'llah himself.
 
Jan 2020
7
Middle United States
Most of this is good support, but I wouldn't offer the Bab using the term "Baha" as support, given that that is the Greatest Name of God, not a reference to Baha'u'llah himself.
Actually, the reference is to Baha'u'llah, as in the famous Dawn Prayer of the Fifth Imam which the Badi Calendar is based upon. There is even a Shi'ih tradition regarding this allusion. The Names of the Badi Calendar months are based on the Dawn Prayer with the first month (Baha) named in honor of Him Whom God Shall Make Manifest according to the Bab. Baháʼí calendar - Wikipedia I understand that there are Islamic traditions indicating this as the Greatest Name and alluding to Baha'u'llah. Year nine is Baha and year nineteen is Vahid in the Badi calendar as well. Also, the Bab uses the term "Order of Baha'u'llah" explicitly in His Writings.

It is the same context from which many passages in the Hebrew Bible refer to a personage or being described as the Glory of God of Israel, Christ returned in the Glory of the Father, and King of Glory or Lord of Hosts.

For reasons I do not pretend to understand, we are never told explicitly but, instead, through allusions to the name and date that only become apparent when the next Manifestation reveals Himself and comments on the fulfillment. This is to "test" humanity. Thus, the Bab could not explicitly reveal the name of the person who would become Him Whom God Shall Make Manifest too obviously but repeatedly hints about it in numerous texts, including the Tablet to Mulla Baqir. But the Bab made so many allusions in so many Writings that 90%+ of His followers recognized Baha'u'llah eventually.
 
Jan 2020
7
Middle United States
Thank you. Doesn't seem to be a lot of activity on this forum but I will pop in from time-to-time.
 
Aug 2014
1,415
Blue Planet
I could not go through all the replies here; so I am just giving my personal opinion.

Azal cannot be "whom God will make Manifest" and even he himself did not have such a claim. he, on the other hand, started to go back very much to Shi'i ideas of "waiting for Qaim". he says that even Bab meant for people to wait many more decades and centuries for Qaim. That's the Azali idea.

Bahaullah, on the other hand, creates a complete break with the Islamic tradition of waiting for Qaim. it was time for the world to come out of the deep delusion that a Qaim will come when the skies are rent asuder and when the stars fall down on earth. So He manifested Himself and cleared all the rubbish ideas.
 
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