Women on the UHJ

Aug 2019
86
Berlin
Politicized views of a certain question are allowed to take precedence over an effort to understand it in the light of Bahá'í teachings. That's why I find this discussion so boring.
Yes, that, unfortunately, is what will stand in the way of the unity of mankind for a long time to come. It saddens me when members of the Baha'i religion repeat the behaviour of previous religions using the arguments of Baha'u'llah. Abdu'l-Baha said that the first step to unity is to discard all advantages and go to mosques and churches, because God is worshipped everywhere. With biased attitudes and arrogance, we will not be able to truly meet what the Baha'i religion expects of us. We must not only go behind names and concepts to recognize the unity of God, we must also go behind our own concepts and names to distance ourselves from any claim to absoluteness. Bahaullah's revelation to me is first and foremost an indication that we ourselves must change our behavior, for we are usually stuck in the same duality as any other human being.
 
Aug 2019
86
Berlin
I said: The reason unity is impossible is because people cling to their older religions and they all believe their religion is superior to the other religions.
You don't realize that the others are to blame is the problem because you expect the other people to change? Baha'u'llah gave me the revelation that all religions are one and he gave me in his revelation explanations why I should know God in the prophets of all religions. But he did not ask me to explain to other people that they have outdated religions. On the contrary, he gave us Baha'i no authority to present our interpretation as the right one, neither to Baha'i nor to other religions. And that means that he did not give us the authority to explain their religion to other people either. We should be in harmony with the people of other religions and cooperate with them - perhaps this harmony leads other people to come to terms with Baha'u'llah, but as Baha'i we should thereby missionize to be role models in our actions.
 
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Aug 2019
86
Berlin
Clinging to the older religions does stand against unity because religions cannot be unified unless they unite under one common banner.
The name of this common banner is: respect and acceptance.
And the insight that all religions - Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Baha'i, Hinduism - are one religion. Therefore there is no need for conversions among each other, but everyone remains faithful to his religion, because they all are one religion. Believing to be faithful to one's religion is a contradiction to acceptance, reveals your skewed understanding of religion and acceptance.

Did you ever take a course in logic?
I didn't need one. But if I discover one and you are interested, I will gladly give your contact details. :)
 
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Jul 2017
511
Olympia, WA, USA
You don't realize that the others are to blame is the problem because you expect the other people to change?
I do not “blame” anyone for anything. I never said I “expected” anyone to change. They will change if they want to and they won’t change if they don’t want to. Everyone has free will so everyone has to make their own choices.
Baha'u'llah gave me the revelation that all religions are one and he gave me in his revelation explanations why I should know God in the prophets of all religions. But he did not ask me to explain to other people that they have outdated religions. On the contrary, he gave us Baha'i no authority to present our interpretation as the right one, neither to Baha'i nor to other religions.
I never tell anyone I have the “right religion.” I only say it is the most current religion from God, according to my beliefs. I sometimes say that the Baha’i Faith has the “current message” God wants us to follow and “new” social teachings and laws but I also say that the spiritual teachings of all the great religions are the same and they are renewed in every new age..

Baha’u’llah did not give any “specifics” as to how we are to teach the Faith. We all have our own methods. You can use your methods and I will use mine. I can “say” whatever I want to people and you can “say” what you want.
And that means that he did not give us the authority to explain their religion to other people either.
I do not think we should explain other peoples’ religions to them because that is arrogant, but we have the right to explain what “our interpretations” of the older scriptures are. Many religious people think they own their scriptures, but nobody owns those scriptures. They were revealed by God and they belong to everyone.
We should be in harmony with the people of other religions and cooperate with them - perhaps this harmony leads other people to come to terms with Baha'u'llah, but as Baha'i we should thereby missionize to be role models in our actions.
I agree. Baha’u’llah gave us clear guidelines and we should try to follow them.

“Consort with all men, O people of Bahá, in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship. If ye be aware of a certain truth, if ye possess a jewel, of which others are deprived, share it with them in a language of utmost kindliness and good-will. If it be accepted, if it fulfil its purpose, your object is attained. If anyone should refuse it, leave him unto himself, and beseech God to guide him. Beware lest ye deal unkindly with him. A kindly tongue is the lodestone of the hearts of men. It is the bread of the spirit, it clotheth the words with meaning, it is the fountain of the light of wisdom and understanding…. “ Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 289

“Say: Teach ye the Cause of God, O people of Bahá, for God hath prescribed unto every one the duty of proclaiming His Message, and regardeth it as the most meritorious of all deeds. Such a deed is acceptable only when he that teacheth the Cause is already a firm believer in God, the Supreme Protector, the Gracious, the Almighty. He hath, moreover, ordained that His Cause be taught through the power of men’s utterance, and not through resort to violence. Thus hath His ordinance been sent down from the Kingdom of Him Who is the Most Exalted, the All-Wise. Beware lest ye contend with any one, nay, strive to make him aware of the truth with kindly manner and most convincing exhortation. If your hearer respond, he will have responded to his own behoof, and if not, turn ye away from him, and set your faces towards God’s sacred Court, the seat of resplendent holiness.” GleaningsFrom the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 278-279

“Be unrestrained as the wind, while carrying the Message of Him Who hath caused the Dawn of Divine Guidance to break. Consider, how the wind, faithful to that which God hath ordained, bloweth upon all the regions of the earth, be they inhabited or desolate. Neither the sight of desolation, nor the evidences of prosperity, can either pain or please it. It bloweth in every direction, as bidden by its Creator. So should be every one that claimeth to be a lover of the one true God. It behoveth him to fix his gaze upon the fundamentals of His Faith, and to labor diligently for its propagation.Wholly for the sake of God he shouldproclaim His Message, and with that same spirit accept whatever response his words may evoke in his hearer. He who shall accept and believe, shall receive his reward; and he who shall turn away, shall receive none other than his own punishment.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 339
 
Jul 2017
511
Olympia, WA, USA
Trailblazer said: Clinging to the older religions does stand against unity because religions cannot be unified unless they unite under one common banner.

The name of this common banner is: respect and acceptance.
The name of this common banner will be whatever the name of the “one common Faith” is when everyone unites under that banner. It might not even be called the Baha’i Faith, unless everyone unites before the next Manifestation of God appears.

“That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith.” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 91
And the insight that all religions - Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Baha'i, Hinduism - are one religion. Therefore there is no need for conversions among each other, but everyone remains faithful to his religion, because they all are one religion.
God ordained that there will be one “common” Faith. That means that the adherents to the various religions will not be able to remain faithful to those older religions forever.

They are all part of the one religion of God but they are different chapters.

“Once in about a thousand years shall this City be renewed and readorned….That City is none other than the Word of God revealed in every age and dispensation. In the days of Moses it was the Pentateuch; in the days of Jesus, the Gospel; in the days of Muhammad, the Messenger of God, the Qur’án; in this day, the Bayán; and in the Dispensation of Him Whom God will make manifest, His own Book—the Book unto which all the Books of former Dispensations must needs be referred, the Book that standeth amongst them all transcendent and supreme.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 269-270

Logically speaking, as long as people are clinging to an earlier chapter they will never be able to move on to the current chapter. And cling is exactly what they do, so why mince words? I am a Baha’i forum so I should be able to share my opinions. I do not go on another religious forum and tell people of other religions that they are clinging, so you need not assume that I do.
Believing to be faithful to one's religion is a contradiction to acceptance, reveals your skewed understanding of religion and acceptance.
A person can respect and accept those of other religions while at the same time realize that the Baha’u’llah’s goal was to unite all the religions under one common banner.

Believing that Baha’u’llah’s goal was to unite all the religions under one common banner, and sharing that belief with others, is not a contradiction to accepting people of other religions since one can do both of those at the same time.
 

ams

Nov 2019
88
Thailand
Imho...

from the 4 main abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Bah'ai) ...

the Bah'ai one has the clearest Expression of the core teaching.

(PS: i say this while my heart and root is attached to Jesus Christ... = brother of Bahāʾullāh ... no problem at all)


Which the other 3 ones also had back their times. But because the Bah'ai is the youngest... its (for us, today) the clearest Expression.

For example:

Its clear: All Religons comes from the same source, God. So all can stop fighting which one was or is the better one.

Its clear: Men and Women has 100% equal rights in society and spirituality in all positions.

Its clear: There is no "last Prophet". There is no "only one Son". But there was many Lamps trought the Sun was shining.

Its clear: God revelation are alway progressive. There was no Stop. And never will be. New Lamps can came every time. And will.

Its clear: Sience and Religion is no opposition but goes Hand in Hand.

And so on...

All this is very clear described in a not toooo old language...
all modern people can understand this. No "mystics" word about the main core teachings.


If Christians agree... if Muslims agree... (the 2 main) ...

and really understand that this is in no way a contradict to Jesus and Mohammed (because they would also agree)

then a very big step to world peace and unity is done. No Problem at all if people stay in Islam or Christianity.


Because its not about how our religion is called... but to really internalized aboves core teachings.
 
Jul 2017
511
Olympia, WA, USA
If Christians agree... if Muslims agree... (the 2 main) ...

and really understand that this is in no way a contradict to Jesus and Mohammed (because they would also agree)

then a very big step to world peace and unity is done. No Problem at all if people stay in Islam or Christianity.

Because its not about how our religion is called... but to really internalized aboves core teachings.
But they don't understand that this in no way contradicts Jesus and Muhammad.
And they don't agree on Baha'i core teachings, because they are Christians and Muslims, and Baha'i core teachings contradicts what they believe.

Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ and the Messiah... Christians and Muslims do not agree with that or they would be Baha'is.
 

ams

Nov 2019
88
Thailand
But they don't understand that this in no way contradicts Jesus and Muhammad.
That is imho true... at least for many. because of some very strong dogmas...

ie. Jesus was the only son.
- He died on the cross for us.
- Nobody else did this for us.
- So we are fine with all what we have.
- What God should revelate to us more?
- There is no need.

Simliar goes to many many Muslim. "Mohammed was the last. We have all."

I never found a way to "break" those very strong dogmas.

For me, its a kind of "stillstanding".
 
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Oct 2019
57
Vrindavan
Your discussion of whether it is necessary to move from one religion to the next because a religion thinks it is the one that is closer to the truth (@Trailblazer, you argue just like Christians or Muslims who wanted Jews or Christians to explain that they had to follow Jesus or Mohammed, I actually thought this nonsense had given up Baha'i) was overturned in Vedanta philosophy in India by the realization that absolute truth exists behind names and forms. Baha'u'llah has also recognized this, which is why I am surprised that his followers do not follow him in this question.

Christians say to Jews that they should accept Jesus because this is God's Son and the highest possible knowledge.

Muslims say to Jews and Christians that they must follow Mohammed because Jews and Christians have no current revelation and Mohammed is the seal of the prophets.

Baha'i say to Jews, Christians and Muslims that they must follow Baha'u'llah because it would be the current revelation and only through it would the unity of mankind and religions be realized.

Whoever does not notice that all this is the same has learned little from the history of the Abrahamic religions.
 
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