World unity/peace.

Jan 2011
94
Detroit, MI USA
#11
It could very well have unlimited meanings.

It could already seen to have happened with the Declarations of the Bab and Baha'u'llah, or it could be the next Messenger after 1000 years? It does say before hand, that mankinds perversity will long continue.

The Bible also talks about earthquakes and shaking of limbs may be such an event. The Bible also says in Isaiah 24:20, "The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again."

In the end it does not matter as we must live each day to the best of our ability by service and leave what is to come to what God has so willed.

I find these exciting times, it all points to a day of great unity, a day we are working for so that others can build the Most Great Peace.

Regards Tony
Well we know the baha'i scriptures teaches not to take the bible completely literally.

My whole point of asking if world unity and peace is prophesied is that if it's not prophesied and left totally to humanity, what if humanity as a whole doesn't ever want world unity and peace, what will actually happen to humanity?
 
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Sep 2010
4,389
Normanton Far North Queensland
#13
Well we know the baha'i scriptures teaches not to take the bible completely literally.

My whole point of asking if world unity and peace is prophesied is that if it's not prophesied and left totally to humanity, what if humanity as a whole doesn't ever want world unity and peace, what will actually happen to humanity?
It is our choice. The Prohecy tells us we eventually get it right in Faith. Our history shows us how we got it wrong with Faith.

We are Spiritual beings, the flesh and this world are a matrix for us to grow spiritually.

Regards Tony
 
Sep 2010
4,389
Normanton Far North Queensland
#14
Well we know the baha'i scriptures teaches not to take the bible completely literally
Every passage has an outward meaning and many hidden meanings. They are all fulfilled in one way or another.

The Word of God is creation;

LXXIV: "....Every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God is endowed with such potency as can instill new life into every human frame, if ye be of them that comprehend this truth. All the wondrous works ye behold in this world have been manifested through the operation of His supreme and most exalted Will, His wondrous and inflexible Purpose. Through the mere revelation of the word “Fashioner,” issuing forth from His lips and proclaiming His attribute to mankind, such power is released as can generate, through successive ages, all the manifold arts which the hands of man can produce. This, verily, is a certain truth. No sooner is this resplendent word uttered, than its animating energies, stirring within all created things, give birth to the means and instruments whereby such arts can be produced and perfected. All the wondrous achievements ye now witness are the direct consequences of the Revelation of this Name. In the days to come, ye will, verily, behold things of which ye have never heard before. Thus hath it been decreed in the Tablets of God, and none can comprehend it except them whose sight is sharp. In like manner, the moment the word expressing My attribute “The Omniscient” issueth forth from My mouth, every created thing will, according to its capacity and limitations, be invested with the power to unfold the knowledge of the most marvelous sciences, and will be empowered to manifest them in the course of time at the bidding of Him Who is the Almighty, the All-Knowing. Know thou of a certainty that the Revelation of every other Name is accompanied by a similar manifestation of Divine power. Every single letter proceeding out of the mouth of God is indeed a mother letter, and every word uttered by Him Who is the Well Spring of Divine Revelation is a mother word, and His Tablet a Mother Tablet. Well is it with them that apprehend this truth."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 141-142

In Pilgrim notes taken from Shoghi Effendi, it was recorded that biblical prophecy can still unfold materially, as Baha'u'llah has fulfilled some prophecy to date only spiritually.

This stands to reason as no Messenger is seen to have fulfilled the catastrophic events that the Bible foretells. We know an event will come, as we are warned civilizations that turn away from God are brought down. To me the writings are clear, that the future does not contain cities that are centers of materialisim, places for bodies, not souls.

We desperatly need more Baha'i in my little town, we need help...any volunteers? 😊

Regards Tony
 
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Jan 2011
94
Detroit, MI USA
#16
Every passage has an outward meaning and many hidden meanings. They are all fulfilled in one way or another.

The Word of God is creation;

LXXIV: "....Every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God is endowed with such potency as can instill new life into every human frame, if ye be of them that comprehend this truth. All the wondrous works ye behold in this world have been manifested through the operation of His supreme and most exalted Will, His wondrous and inflexible Purpose. Through the mere revelation of the word “Fashioner,” issuing forth from His lips and proclaiming His attribute to mankind, such power is released as can generate, through successive ages, all the manifold arts which the hands of man can produce. This, verily, is a certain truth. No sooner is this resplendent word uttered, than its animating energies, stirring within all created things, give birth to the means and instruments whereby such arts can be produced and perfected. All the wondrous achievements ye now witness are the direct consequences of the Revelation of this Name. In the days to come, ye will, verily, behold things of which ye have never heard before. Thus hath it been decreed in the Tablets of God, and none can comprehend it except them whose sight is sharp. In like manner, the moment the word expressing My attribute “The Omniscient” issueth forth from My mouth, every created thing will, according to its capacity and limitations, be invested with the power to unfold the knowledge of the most marvelous sciences, and will be empowered to manifest them in the course of time at the bidding of Him Who is the Almighty, the All-Knowing. Know thou of a certainty that the Revelation of every other Name is accompanied by a similar manifestation of Divine power. Every single letter proceeding out of the mouth of God is indeed a mother letter, and every word uttered by Him Who is the Well Spring of Divine Revelation is a mother word, and His Tablet a Mother Tablet. Well is it with them that apprehend this truth."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 141-142

In Pilgrim notes taken from Shoghi Effendi, it was recorded that biblical prophecy can still unfold materially, as Baha'u'llah has fulfilled some prophecy to date only spiritually.

This stands to reason as no Messenger is seen to have fulfilled the catastrophic events that the Bible foretells. We know an event will come, as we are warned civilizations that turn away from God are brought down. To me the writings are clear, that the future does not contain cities that are centers of materialisim, places for bodies, not souls.

We desperatly need more Baha'i in my little town, we need help...any volunteers? 😊

Regards Tony
You know what, you're actually the first baha'i that I've heard say that not all of the biblical let alone the qur'anic prophecies has not yet been actually fulfilled literally yet.

Which to me honestly feel like is a contradiction to what the the baha'i scriptures teaches.

We have to be very careful on this subject.
This is the same reason why certain peoples and civilizations have failed to recognize the latest Manifestations and revelations from God. People have took scriptures very literally, they expected and wanted an actual spectacle whenever the Manifestations have appeared, and when they didn't get those spectacles they turned away and even attacked and killed certain Manifestations because of that.

I also heard that the pilgrims notes are not to be taken as authentic, if I'm not mistaking.
 
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Jan 2011
94
Detroit, MI USA
#17
It is our choice. The Prohecy tells us we eventually get it right in Faith. Our history shows us how we got it wrong with Faith.

We are Spiritual beings, the flesh and this world are a matrix for us to grow spiritually.

Regards Tony
"Prohecy tells us we eventually get it right in Faith. Our history shows us how we got it wrong with Faith"
How do you coralate these two statements?

This world is a matrix for us to grow spiritually. But the scriptures of the past and even the baha'i scriptures talk about a time when this world will be like heaven. The scriptures says to work for the betterment of this world/matrix.

How do you correlate these things?
 
Sep 2010
4,389
Normanton Far North Queensland
#18
"Prophesy tells us we eventually get it right in Faith. Our history shows us how we got it wrong with Faith"
How do you correlate these two statements?
I see it is by immersion in the ocean of Baha'u'llah's Revelation.

The Kitab-i-qan describes in detail the rejection of the Messengers of God, which is our history up to and including this day and the future days to come. Each one of those Messengers tell of this day and of the future where Mankind will better reflect on this earth, what is the spiritual kingdom. Progressive revelation is the principal.

Each Faith in the past has had its Golden day and these days better reflect what is of the Spiritual Worlds. The Baha'i Faith will reach a Golden age and this age will see a reflection of the spiritual worlds on a scale yet reached. The Baha'i Faith will also have its winter, a new Messenger will come to build upon what humanity has learned. When that day comes, I would think it will be more than an earth based message, we would have reached out to other worlds, other creatures and peoples. We have a lot of unity to consider :)

Regards Tony
 
Sep 2010
4,389
Normanton Far North Queensland
#19
also heard that the pilgrims notes are not to be taken as authentic, if I'm not mistaking.
Yes that is correct. What you do find in the pilgrim notes is also mostly found in the official writings of Shoghi Effendi, with the graphic detail not included.

This pilgrim note by Valera & John Allen says it well;

"One of the surprising things to us was that there was considerable difference in opinion as to just what the Guardian had said or meant to imply. It made us acutely aware of why Pilgrim's notes must always remain on the basis of personal understanding and cannot have any official standing."

Regards Tony
 
Sep 2010
4,389
Normanton Far North Queensland
#20
You know what, you're actually the first baha'i that I've heard say that not all of the biblical let alone the qur'anic prophecies has not yet been actually fulfilled literally yet.
When one reads the Bible about the last days, it is not hard to conclude there has not been the scale of literal fulfillment that many expect. As a Baha'i we spend most of our time sharing the Spiritual Fulfillment of these Prophecies and through Gods bounty we are able to combine this with some literal fulfillment's.

If we look at but one; Zechariah 13:8 "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein."

This could very well be a spiritual reality and fulfillment, just as we can also know that the dead bury the dead. As for 100% material fulfillment, we know it has not happened.

There are many pilgrim notes that record it, some say it in different ways, but they all say it may have a material unfolding yet to happen, here is one example;


"....When dinner was finished he cleared the place in front of him and said that he had read a most important news item. He produced a copy of the "London Times", December 16, 1954 and read to us the following excerpt: "Mr. Wyatt asked the Prime Minister (Mr. Churchill) whether he could state with greater exactness the number of atomic and nuclear explosions that he was advised would make lethal the atmosphere over substantial areas of the world and whether he had now studied the evidence that he (Mr. Wyatt) had submitted to him." The Guardian called attention to the reference in the Tablets of Bahá'u'lláh, "Words of Paradise", (B.W.F. p.183) where He wrote: "A strange and wonderful instrument which has the power to change the atmosphere of the whole earth, and its infection causes destruction." He said the word "wonderful" was not right, a better translation would be "astonishing" and "instrument" was also a wrong translation but he could not put his finger on the right word. We all tried to help out with suggestions but he said none was exactly right. He told us that there is a difference in translating a word correctly and using a term to explain the meaning. Just to explain the meaning he said that probably "substance" would be the nearest word.

The Guardian said he was impressed because of the use of the word "atmosphere" in the paper and the idea that the "lethal" properties could cover large areas of the earth. Bahá'u'lláh had prophesied a third stage — covering the whole earth. The beginning or the first stage was the explosions in Japan that had effected the immediate areas. The second stage was the covering of large areas of the globe such as the article in the "Times" referred to and the third was the one anticipated by Bahá'u'lláh as a teaching point. And added as an afterthought that one could easily see how the prophecy in Daniel regarding 2/3 of the earth being destroyed could come to pass...." Haifa Impressions

Regards Tony
 

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